pkrankow Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I am frustrated with trying to make tongs. I think they are slightly advanced for my skill level. Pliers and channel locks are not ideal either. I am thinking about BUYING NEW AT RETAIL PRICE two (2) pair of tongs. At $40 or so a pair this will kill an entire months hobby budget. I am learning on "smaller" materials such as 3/8 and 1/2 inch square and round. I also have some thick sheet metal. I expect to want to use larger materials in the future. I have a gas forge currently, and may build a solid fuel forge in the future. I am not currently interested in reworking another tool, or adding long handles to pliers or channel locks (although I likely will do this eventually) There seem to be about 10 common types of tongs in a whole bunch of different sizes. I am interested in the opinion of what 2 pair you would select to be used with a variety of stock that a beginner can learn the most with. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 You're shopping blacksmithsdepot.com? I'd recommend a pair of 1/2 inch v-bit bolt tongs (chainmaker), depending on the adjustment of the reins it might work for 3/8. You might consider the gooseneck as they allow material to pass through. Second pair you might go with the Peddinghaus wolf jaw tong. Both can also hold sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 I was also looking at centaurforge.com. I don't remember where else I have seen tongs, but prices seem similar everywhere for new. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Phil, I understand your frustration. I made two sets of tongs so far and both are UGLY but they work. The second set is a little better than the first. Like my football coach used to say, "Keep running that play till you get it right." So, I'll keep working on that skill until I get good at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I find the pair of 1/4" v bit OCP tongs (now chainmaker tongs) I bought long ago very usefull, they hold 1/4" 3/8" and hold sheet fairly well also. They also make reasonalbly good pickup tongs because of the crossways groove. The longer reins and crossways groove are a good improvement Grant has made to them since I bought mine. I ground a crossways groove in mine a couple of months before I saw the new forged in groove ones ( much stronger) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnesBeast Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I found these tongs to be worth the money:eBay Store - Poor Boy Blacksmith Tools: Category 1 He sells other things, what I found is that if it is welded and you hit it with a hammer, it will break (fullers, guilotine tool) but I do not hit my tongs with a hammer, so they work fine. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 pkrankow, buddy, pal. OCP tongs are the best made and are made by me right here in the USA. The ones I see at the other place are made in Pakistan and generally cost more. I admit I buy foreign sometimes, but usually the price is compelling. My tongs are also guaranteed for life! I don't care if you burn em up in the fire, smash them in a power hammer or drive over them with a Mack truck, I'll replace them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 i started with the same trouble.... i found GStongs in WA ....nice for the price... I got two flat ones and 2 diamond shapes the work for round flat and square pretty good deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Fat Pete: Yeah, Glen Stollmeyer makes nice tools. Does it all by hand and forge welds the reins too. He's also a great guy to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 i am sorry grant i didnt want to steel your thunder....I am sure you make a fine pair too! in fact maybe you could send me a pair for 5/8ths v just to try, LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 It is sad to see so many new folks trying to learn smithing and on such a tight budget that tools they need to have to learn on are scarce. If you watch these forums it is often repeated. Pliers for tongs..forge that they built and not sure if it is working right,,chunk of steel for an anvil...And mystery metal for stock..But if you follow those folks there are many that work through that and learn to smith. It is a matter of want to and perserverance I believe. Do the basics and advance as you are able to..Don't get frustrated. And have fun.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 Thanks Rich, that is exactly why I am thinking about buying tongs, Tongs became no fun after I burned the jaws off the second pair I was trying to make. I need to step back and practice hammer control and make basic tooling. Making leaf key fobs out of the handles of the tongs I messed up was fun. UrnesBrast, I looked, I may email and see if those are made is USA, dunno yet, but the price seems nice. I looked at GStongs, but forgot the name, thanks Fat Pete. I know you are OCP Nakedanvil, That is a H*LL of a warranty, is that just for hobbyists or anybody? Why do you like the Peddinghaus wolf jaw over your own in this case? The chainmaker tong I thought would be a good choice too. I will try making tongs again, but I think I want to leave them alone for a bit and come back to them later. That is part of why I am thinking only 2 pair. No money till next week at the earliest for this though, so I have time to think. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Wolf jaw tongs. Good question, and I'm not prepared to answer it. Well, actually they both have their place. Mine are somewhat more versitile and easy to readjust, but the Peddinghaus, being close up to the rivet, have a real “power grab” that is nice for bending and such and hold some things by sheer power rather than fit. Get mine later. I try to give unbiased advise (hard as that is). Warranty? What warranty? Why, you going pro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Wasn't "hammer control" that burned off the end! Called "fire control", pay attention, boy!:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 Naw, it was 15 attempts at drop the tongs welding! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Phil the OCP, Peddinghaus, from the looks of them the GS tongs and even the tongs from Pakistan are all FORGED tongs. I think you would be much better off with 2 pairs of those than the fabricated tongs on ebay. If you buy 2 good quality tongs you will use them for years, if you buy 4 pair of cheap tongs you will use them till you replace them. I heard an interesting saying the other day, "I am to poor to buy cheap things". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I make most of my tongs by cutting the two sides out of a piece of flat iron, usually 1"x3/8" or similar and about 20" long. Lay out the jaws on each end and on opposite sides - the reins will have a natural taper when cut apart. I've heard them called "Poz" tongs but the design is old - I saw a pic of the same method in an old trade school blacksmith textbook from around the turn of the century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Naw, it was 15 attempts at drop the tongs welding! Phil AAAAAH oh no, not drop tongs welding for making tongs!! It is hard. I don't know if it is harder with a gas forge or a coal forge, but it can be a dealbreaker for a beginner. Try to get some successes racked up before you try this. There is a plan somewhere for EZ tongs, which is just flat bar with a half twist. Or, you can just draw down the reins. This will teach you a huge amount of hammer and fire control. It sounds like this will be really good for you. You don't need to challenge yourself too much at this point. Here are some of my favorite tong stories: 1. A couple of years ago, I was trying to make some tongs out of railroad spikes at a hammer-in. I was struggling, and a senior smith came running up, pulled my metal out of the fire, and yelled, "This guy is terrible, where is his teacher???" Of course, "my teacher" was not there. He then called the association's Education Chairman, who just shook his head sadly. Eventually, I burned the end of one of the reins off, and an old hand told me it's probably quitting time. I kept that bad rein, and eventually forge welded a stub on to make a very decent pair of tongs. Shortly afterwards, that senior smith was giving a demo and he misplaced his diagonal peen hammer. I lent him the one I made, and he said it was alright. 2. At midnight madness, I was struggling to draw the reins out on a set of tongs that I was making. Some smiths came by and muttered that I had a lot of determination, and they would not have gone through with it. Eventually, this old fellow clapped his arm around my shoulder and said, "Son, I think there's something I should show you." Always receptive, I agreed at once. He said, a power hammer is what you need. I declined, but then he said, they're not dangerous as long as you only draw straight iron. He shoved the fellows who were using the air hammer out of the way, and stuck my reins into the gas forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Oops, got interrupted. Anyway, he taught me how to draw out the reins, and it was magical. When I was done, he said, "if you want to buy one, tell your wife you want to buy a Harley." "Finally, give in to her objections, and settle for the power hammer." Sounded great, but it didn't work. 3. I heard that Peter Ross can make a pair of tongs in 30 minutes. A fellow from Williamsburg was giving a demo, and I asked him about this. He said, sure, I'll show you how to do it. He scarfed a bar for the rein weld, and let me take it home. I tried it out, and it was one of the worst tong making experiences I ever had. Must have taken me 8 hours to finish. Should have learned an important lesson. Sometimes the most direct looking path is not all that direct. 4. I went to a forge welding demo/workshop. The demonstrator said that a drop tongs weld was really tough and should be choreographed. And, it was too hard to demo, so a helper was used. The demonstrator failed to make the weld three times, gave up, and told us that we may have better luck. We did, but it was still ugly. I blame the junk steel that they used. Why don't you just try drawing out the reins? It's not all that bad. And you (and I) could use the practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 I wanted to try welding. Not much else to say about it. I made the jaw and hinge following a blueprint by irnsrgn I Forge Iron - BP0098 Tongs 100 and that was easy, except for punching the hole. His look better though, even before I tried burning them up. I drew out the reins on my first pair of tongs, but everything ended up thin, especially in the hinge area. I am using them but know they will fail soon. I even bought a thicker bar of HR to try with but haven't yet. I want something that works properly to look at as well. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I bought GS tongs for kinda the same reason... to hard to make them. Then I was introduced to the Czeck (sp) style used and made by Mr. Hofi. These are tong you can make!!! No welding, only slitting and drifting followed by a whole lot of hammer practice:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irontwister Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. visit ebay's poor boy blacksmith shop to buy them, or the best way is to go to a flea market, old farm auction, and borrow one from another smithy while you look for some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unkle spike Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I make and use "flatbar" tongs, I can whip out a set in about an hour or less, and they are pretty simple and straightforward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. visit ebay's poor boy blacksmith shop to buy them, or the best way is to go to a flea market, old farm auction, and borrow one from another smithy while you look for some. What ever! Its hard to beat a nice looking piar of new tongs for $20.00 plus shipping. AND you get the sizes you need right out the gate:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Beg pardon,gents-isn't the whole point getting lost here-i thought this site is to compare notes on forging... Frustration is,alas,a part of learning any skill.One would think that the point is to overcome the challenge by means of forging,vs buying stuff.It's illogical to advise the one struggling with the fundamentals to skip over the essentials,that'll not benefit anyone. Tongs can be built out of very light stock(3/8"),to function by springiness. Heavier,say 1/2" stock,is already approaching store-boughten,"real"tongs.Can you not draw down 1/2"?Why?That,i think,is more to the point. Stock can be left long,so that one side(of tongs) can be forged on the end,the other on the opposite.The drawing can then proceed without cutting the halves apart till virtually the very end. I think that the tongs is an important skill/logical sequence to work through,before moving on.Many simplistic forgings may be satisfying in a deceptive way,by not imparting any valuable skill advance.You'd rob the developement of your intuitive hand/eye coordinating capacity by buying tongs,and for the sake of what? Respectfully,Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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