forgemaster Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yes you can work for someone as a blacky, or you can go it alone. I have done both. 17th year of working for myself as a BS coming up. However I served an Australian apprenticeship as an apprentice blacksmith, worked for a few companies, not only blacksmiths (eg built ships, cranes, buildings, bridges) attended TAFE to further my welding skills, attended college to learn marketing, sales, accounting, management, all of which you would need to run a sucessful small business, as mentioned else were, working for your self is not a 40 hour a week kind of job, while you are awake you are working. But yes you can make a living being a blacksmith. Cheers Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 If I may...I suggest that you get a degree in Art. The letters "BFA" after your name carry weight. A minor in business/management would serve you well. If need be don't let a little water stand in your way of geeting some experience...you CAN leave the USA for an apprenticeship you know. Most shops here in the states really can't, and won't, take on an apprentice. (there are several threads here on IFI speaking to that so I won't rehash them here). Don't let failure deter you from your dreams. From a couple of your past post I feel you have a fairly level head on your shoulders. I have been in the metal trade since '73, full time. I have never done anything else although my blacksmithing time has not been for that long. I was introduce to blacksmithing in the first shop I worked in back then and always dreamed of one day learning the art. I'm 55 and am amazed still at how much there is to learn, both in welding and blacksmithing. Have the attitude of "I woke up this morning at the perfect age to learn something new." I adopted that mentality when I first started. LISTEN. My first employer taught me to listen, watch and then ask questions if you still don't understand something. A large portion of young folks will ask obvious questions when all they need to do is have some patience and pay attention to what is being taught/done. Your education won't come easy. In today's world we want everything "RIGHT NOW", don't get that attitude. Enjoy learning and always be eager to share what knowledge you have gained with others. Good luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Google Tom Joyce Blacksmith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Ameling Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 There are a number of specific blacksmithing schools/classes out there. As well as farrier schools/classes. But a number of colleges/universities also offer blacksmithing classes - usually as part of their ART department. The University of Wisconsin in La Crosse is one of those. Bill Fiorini (the knife maker) kind of really set that section up in the Art Dept. He is retired now, but the program continues. They even offered Adult Ed night classes in blacksmithing. And the State University down in Ames Iowa also has blacksmithing classes as part of their ART department. So a little searching will lead you to college level classes in blacksmithing and other forms of Art. Also keep in mind your future "boss" - yourself. That "boss" will be the BEST and the WORST "boss" out there. When everything hangs on you, YOU have to make it work. YOU are responsible. YOU must run it all. Working with a partner helps and hurts things. You will have help with all the work and responsibilities. But you will also have to share it all as well. And there will be time when you will not agree. Working for somebody else is ... simple. You show up, you do what they tell you, and then you go home. Your life will be simple, theirs will be complicated. Everything has its good points and bad points. And you won't know until you try. Good luck on your .... journey! Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spears Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Hello Drako, I'm not a senior member here on the Forum, but it looks like you have a tremendous amount of support. No one that's honest with themself gets anything out of sh--ting on anyone else's dreams. Nor do I think anyone here would lie to a younger person only to be fooling one's self. Blacksmithing that does bring in income whether hobby or full time is backed by quite a bit more equipment costs and acquired skill costs than what's on the surface. Education, skills, and equipment all take a substantial portion of one's lifespan to pay for and gather. If ironwork would pay for college it would be coming out of a shop backed up by long earned financial buildup and develpement. That kind of earning power doesn't happen on start-up. Start slow, practice patience, maybe find a related job in a welding shop to help get started and pay for some classes. Make your decisions with a time built arsenal of knowledge and equipment. Careers go a bit easier with a little more preparation. We all want you to succeed. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drako11 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Thanks for all the wonderful suggestions, advice, and compliments guys! Great to know there are this many people who are willing to throw out their own life experiences and thoughts. MarkC: I was actually planning on going into the marines before I ever got into blacksmithing, my father is life time military, and I thought hey I'll learn a lot and pay for college. However, I crushed my ankle in February in a car wreck, and I now have a limp and can't run so that is out. BlackCrow: I totally agree with you about the debt issue. I have seen what it does personally in my own family. Not going to go into details though. Well again thanks for everything and if anyone has anything they want to add go right ahaed! : D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Drako you bring up something I have not seen mentioned yet: Health Care! Almost every crafter I know has had at least 1 catastrophic health incident. Many of them have gone bankrupt and lost all they own over it. Exp a knifemaker who accidentally got his fingers stuck in the gears of an old hand crank drillpress he had motorized to save money, not only did he have the very expensive micro surgery he was also not allowed to work for months! So remember to factor in health insurance payments when you work on your plan. Me I have really enjoyed keeping my hobby and my income separate and regularly exult on how nice it is to be sitting in a comfy chair in climate controlled room instead of *having* to crank out produce in 100+ deg heat. If you want to make a business of it---get welding training! Oft times welding will keep food on the table while you are between commissions. Next suggestion: is there a blacksmith shop at any "local" attractions that may hire you and *pay* you to practice the craft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I was able to start out because I was a certified welder and a skilled fabricator. I was able to transition to all blacksmithing very quickly partly because there were so many shops transitioning the other way and I was able to pick up work they were no longer interested in doing, mostly industrial work. Many of the customers were so happy to find someone that could still do their work that they were willing to pay almost anything. "XYZ was doing these for $2.00 each for the last twenty years, how come you want $10.00"? "Why don't you have them do it"? "They're out of business". "Well I intend to stay in business, $10.00"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Ameling Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Years ago I met a guy who did specialty forgings - for sports car restorations. Those old cars were pretty much hand-built anyway, so getting "parts" for them was extremely hard. Most guys ended up buying another "junker" car like theirs for spare parts. Well, he would make new parts for people - using a combination of forging, welding, machining. It made a good living for him and several employees. The same thing applies to restoring antique tractors and old farm machinery. You either find an old replacement part, or you have to have one made up. One good point about people who restore old cars, tractors, and machinery - they generally have the money to pay for what they want done! Yes, they will try to dicker on price. And they might have to schedule things for delivery later. But when they want a part or work done, they will have their finances arranged so you can get paid right away. A friend really enjoys restoring old tractors. It is a part of his business that he really likes. Ditto the Steam Engine repair - even the welding/certifying of boilers. But he also does farm machinery repair as necessary. It's hard for him to turn such work down - because it is what he started with and he knows all the guys stopping in for repair work. But he also knows that payment will have to be on farm/market time - when crops/livestock get sold he will get paid. He does not like the wait, but he understands it and does what he can to accomidate his friends and neighbors. And in turn, they return that kindness, understanding, and assistance when needed. Just a way of doing business in a small/rural community. Last year his repair shop burned down. Several weeks ago all the people in the area got together and held a fund raiser for him - to help with some of all the stuff the insurance did not cover. Just a few more examples of ... specialty work/shops ... and possibilities. Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands p.s. The tractor repair guy even helped me move a 16x24 wood garage 30 miles to my place. One of those "I can do anything" type of guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drako11 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 ThomasPowers now that you mention it, I believe there is actually an amusement park a couple hours away from me called Dollywood, and I believe they do a lot of recreation exhibits and such they might love to have a blacksmith! Actually I had kind of thought of something like his before, there is a little local tourist attraction here where I live a little amish community and a sort of antique mall/fleamarket area has sprung up around it. I think I could do pretty good setting up a shop near there, or maybe convince someone they need a blacksmith in Davy Crockett State Park. : P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
un1tek84 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 The others who posted about their experience know more about being self-employed in this area than I do, but I would suggest something that goes along with any self-employment endeavor. And that is, get yourself on the web sooner than later. Get a website up, and build up your web identity. Years from now all industries will need some web presence as standard. Since you're young, it's easier for you to learn what you need to know about publishing content, getting traffic, using social media, etc. -- all to basically build up your portfolio and make yourself accessible. Even if you just offer blacksmithing tips once a week on your blog, you have that edge over others who aren't online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myloh67 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Naked Anvil Quoted:.. "XYZ was doing these for $2.00 each for the last twenty years, how come you want $10.00"? "Why don't you have them do it"? "They're out of business". "Well I intend to stay in business, $10.00"! This perception is the key to taking a stand for yourself and your business. Educating the customer and being truthful with yourself isnt easy, remain focused and think of the future as opposed the short term. Dont forget about the quantity of mass produced low quality work available to the masses. What we are about emanates from something personal, and that comes at YOUR price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Drako, you obviously believe you have the smithing skills to start out on your own but that is probably the least important skill you will need to survive in your own business. I have seen plenty of skilled tradesmen start out on their own only to fail because they lack either business skills or the discipline needed to be your own boss. If you decide to go at it the best insurance you can have is to find a businessman to mentor you. Doesn't need to be associated with the kind of work you do because business skills is business skills. If he or she is successful in business, listen to what they tell you and believe the stories of doom and gloom, long hours, overheads, hidden costs, set backs, failures, bad customers. Better still listen to how they avoid or deal with these things and if you still reckon your prepared for these possibilities then go for it. Just remember if you haven't got a tool in your hand you aren't making any money. When you are sick, having a day off or vacation, talking on the phone, listening to customers life stories or just shooting the bull, you aren't making any money. Hope that's ot too much doom and gloom for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drako11 Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 Mick, I most definitely do not have the smithing skill to start a business! lol It's just with college coming up fast, I feel I need to start deciding what it is I want to start focusing on for a career. If I decide it is smithing, then I will pursue as much education as possible, and devote a large majority of my time to smithing. I would also begin gathering tools, thinking of a work area, etc. etc. So I guess you could say a the moment I am just testing the waters, before I devote myself to swim. : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryce Masuk Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Dont limit yourself take a look at what can be made from sheet metal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 It's not exactly smithing related, but my advice is to keep your options open. You're a young man and, without being condescending, you probably don't have the experiences to know what you want out of life yet. When I was your age (only a few years ago) I wanted to be an archaeologist, so I studied for a degree in archaeology, during the course of which many things changed in my life. Before that I wanted to be an engineer. Now I'm considering a career in smithing -- but crucially I've learned what my parents had been telling me all along: keep your options open! If college over there is anything like university over here it's an expensive but valuable learning experience, and what you learn from books and in lectures is only part of what you learn. Granted it's not for everyone (despite what our quasi-socialist government tries to tell people) but from what I can tell you are more level-headed and mature than I was at yoru age (and possibly than I am now!) and I think that the learning experience of being somewhat independant from your family and in a new environment can only help, irrespective of what your study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orchardtown forge Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Drako My old applied maths master gave me the best advice. "By the time you are my age (he was probably in his 40's at the time) make sure that you have at least a couple of other professions under your belt." That way, if you don't like your boss or the way a particular industry is going, you can walk away into something else. I enjoyed work as Master Mariner, Ex Director of UK Coastguard, ex Electronic systems engineer, ex Marine surveyor, Principal Examiner of Master Mariners. Lately retired and retrained at UK National school of blacksmithing for one year. Now a happy P/T blacksmith and armourer. Don't make any money from it but it makes me very happy and keeps me out of my wife's hair...very important when you are retired. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Lets see I went to college to become an EE, changed my mind after 2 years and got a degree as a geologist/geophysist. Worked in the oil patch for several years till the crash of 1983, was un-employed for a year and then went to work for a swordmaker for a year. Got married and had to have a real job so I worked in a custom wood shop for a couple of years. Then worked on an assembly line while going for an electronics tech degree but got hired by Bell Labs before I finished that degree and they had me do a CIS degree while working long hours with an old house and a young family. Almost 15 years with BL and then when they laid most everyone off I ended up moving from OH to NM and working as a bit herder for an astrophysics research org. I'm wondering what I shall do next! I have learned that having that piece of paper (degree(s)) has made a difference in getting hired several times and at better rates than a friend who was a much better coder but had no degree was able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge2 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Dont limit yourself take a look at what can be made from sheet metal did you make this? that is fantastic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryce Masuk Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 did you make this? that is fantastic! I wish I could say yes but no I am not that good, It made by a local (to me) metal sculptor named kevin smith they say it took about 2 years just to polish the dragon with 2 people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Dollywood has a shop running full time with two or three full-time smiths. Probably a hard gig to get, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt to get an application on file. I don't think I could stand that many tourists on a daily basis. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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