Can anyone help me with the correct term that is used for the style of leaf that is often used to conceal the joints of multiple scrolls. It appears to be a longish style leaf that wraps 3 sides of the joint and is visible and identical from both sides. I thought it was called a florentine.
However I can not find a pattern on the net, books or a BP on how to make them.
Any help will be greatly appreciated, (especially a pattern) then I'm capable of scaling it to suit the needs of the job request.

Chris :)

Edited July 27, 200916 yr by Chrispy
trying to add attachment

Do you have a photo?

Are you referring to the "vines" some folks wrap around joints?

yes i have a photo but it's too large to upload it.
No nota vine it is more a flat leaf hammered into a 3 sided clasp that is presumably welded to 1 or both sides of a scroll joint. It is quite decorative and seen from both sides of the gate / fence etc.

You can post the image in the IForgeIron Gallery which will automatically resize the image for you. Then copy the "Linked Thumbnail" long URL under the image and paste it into the forum text. When that thumbnail is clicked, it will take the viewer to the larger gallery image. Click on the gallery image and it will display the original sized image.

If you still have problems, email the image to me and I will rework it.

Attached is a rough picture of the leaf thing. It is in the lower right hand corner. It hides the joint of the single lower scroll and the 4 branching scrolls coming out through the top. There are 2 fitted in this application - 1 either side of the joint. What is the name of the leaf and does anyone have a pattern / template that they are willing to share.
I have a job pending that requires 18 in total and am thinking of having them Laser cut from 3 or 4 mm hot rolled sheet. I can figure out how to forge into shape and attach.I'm just looking for a reasonably decorative template (the easy way out) and the correct term for this style of leaf type collaring.
Regards chris:)

Thanks Glenn,
The only picture I have is a very poor quality shot emailed to me in a pdf format. I searched Elite Wrought Irons catalogue on the net and was able to find an image that will suffice. Unfortunately the product from EWI is made from 0.8 mm thin tin which is way too light for my application. Thanks all the same , I will keep your info at hand and upload a few of my pics to the gallery soon. ;)

Variation of a Water leaf (see Cosira books Wrought Ironwork, A manual of instruction for craftsmen Chapter 2 Item 14 page 48 for "how to", tools needed etc) not quite an acanthus

It is not a collar as such to hold things together, its a feature and integral part of the construction, the whole blending in to give a pleasing smooth/strong transition

Traditionally made as seperate items, forged from plate 10swg approximately 1/8" thick, then fitted and wrapped around the joint, forge welded in, and then the completed assembly forge welded to the next section and so on to complete the stem, problems can occur if outside in a rainy situation with water gathering in the base of the joint, they used to be filled with pitch to help prevent this

Edited July 27, 200916 yr by John B
Extra detail added

Thanks John, I can always count on you good people coming up with the goods. I found a link in the gallery with a more accurate picture. I'll try my luck with the book but if anyone in the meantime has a template / pattern, my email address is [email protected]

Heres the link.

Thanks fellas. I found a suitable pattern on the artmetal web site. Thanks for giving me the name of the leaf "Acanthus" - most helpful.

Edited July 27, 200916 yr by Chrispy
found info

That'smore of an acanthus leaf type, the size of the pattern will depend on the dimensions of the bars/joint you are wrapping and the length is in proportion to where it fits.

One size does not fit all situations, they are easy enough to draw up free hand once you understand the concept and how they are made.

There are templates/line drawings in the Cosira books too, Catalogue of Drawings for Wrought Ironwork page 219 onwards Leafwork, includes tooling details also

Some are forge welded on, others rivetted or brazed

I have attached a picture of one made of 16swg made on one of our courses and used to decorate a mirror made by one of our members

Acanthus, or anything you come up with Tobacco leaves have been used on some traditional work.

Thanks gentlemen, The information provided has been most helpful. Special thanks to John B as I now have the complete PDF publication of Wrought Ironwork Pt 1 - 6 and The Catalogue of Drawings for Wrought Ironwork in my hot little hands which gives detailed drawings and patterns of what I enquired and a hole lot more.
Ps It's a pleasure knowing there are so many genuine folks willing to help each other out and keep this tradition alive.
Cheers Chris

Thanks John, I can always count on you good people coming up with the goods. I found a link in the gallery with a more accurate picture. I'll try my luck with the book but if anyone in the meantime has a template / pattern, my email address is [email protected]

Heres the link.

Thanks fellas. I found a suitable pattern on the artmetal web site. Thanks for giving me the name of the leaf "Acanthus" - most helpful.

You can try and find an ABANA publication - Spring 1983 - a 10th Anniversary issue. It details 60 patterns of the 'Acanthus style (and other similar) leaves.

It details Max Metzger's (German) book on blacksmithing.
Metzger's book has been a bible to me.

I think it is a 1929 publication.

I know that these are thin leads....

Thanks Mark, I've looked on the net for something downloadable to no avail but did find the book listed with Amazon books. I have a friend that is a wizard in finding digitized books, I'll see what he can do for me. Also seriously considering buying the book as you indicated "it has been a Bible for yourself". That's a pretty good recommendation from highly reputable man.

Crispy, Mark Aspery (sp) has a really good video on youtube showing the making of an acanthus leaf....Should be able to find it if you look for mark under the search feature. Must've watched it a dozen times...


Nevermind, Mark beat me to it :-)

Crispy, Mark Aspery (sp) has a really good video on youtube showing the making of an acanthus leaf....Should be able to find it if you look for mark under the search feature. Must've watched it a dozen times...


Nevermind, Mark beat me to it :-)

This is the link to the YouTube site
YouTube - The Forged Acanthus Leaf

I have the ISBN to the Metzger book as
3-88746-135-5