Jump to content
I Forge Iron

I've been thinking!


Recommended Posts

I fired up the forge last night and had time to do some thinking while waiting for the metal to get hot. Now a word of warning, anyone who knows me knows to head for the nearest swamp when I get to thinking. I’ve been told that it is down right dangerous for me to do it in any way, shape or form.

Now for the last two and a half years I’ve been doing a lot of reading about blacksmithing. In post after post I’ve seen the older (uh… more experienced) smiths encourage the newer ones to practice, practice, practice. The more you practice the better you get and the faster you’ll work.

We’re also admonished not to under cut the smith who is doing this for a living.

I’ve also seen posts repeatedly asking what price do you place on your creations, Most of the replies set a price of sixty to sixty five dollars and hour of shop time.

WARNING here comes the thinking:

Mr. Frosty, who was born with a hammer in his hand and has been forging since.. (Length of time withheld for my protection) can whip out a leaf in ten minuets that looks more natural than the ones on the trees and he sells said leaf for ten dollars.

Me, I’m just now figuring out which end of the hammer to hold, I spend four hours making something (that if you hold in the right light, squint your eyes and use your imagination) looks like a leaf or maybe an arrow head, but really it just looks like a beat up peace of metal. But I have four hours of shop time in it and acording to the posts I've read, that makes it worth two hundred and forty dollars.

Now who is getting under sold and why would I want to get any better or faster? :confused:

Ain't it strange where the mind will go while waiting for metal to heat?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can see why it is dangerous for you to think!;) But you do have a valid point....crazy thinking ain't it. Everyone knows what their work is worth I guess, and if you can get that $240.00 for your leaf then good for you! But you will have to tell Frosty he needs to go up some on his leaves....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Frosty has been forging for (playing it safe here) *a while*. I am sure if he says it is a 10 minute leaf, that is close enough for these calculations.

Like anything else, the time needed to set-up equipment should be included in the cost. If it takes an hour to set things up and get the fire up to temperature, that is one hour of unpaid labor. Tear down and put it all back time must also be included. Did Frosty count this time or did he just give you his fastest recorded time for making a single leaf? (grin)

Practice, practice and a little (ok, a lot) more practice. This is where Frosty has minimized the leaf making steps, uses the shape and form of the leaf that is most efficient, etc etc. Frosty is selling the LAST leaf he made. You are selling the FIRST leaf you have made. Hold on to your first leaf. One day may be worth $250 as a collectors item, or it may be worth $250 to keep it from seeing the light of day (BIG GRIN).

Frosty, just for the record, how long did you take to make your very first leaf? How many leaves have you made all together, including the last one that took only 10 minutes to make?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My leaves take me 6 years and 10 minutes, it took me 6 years to learn to make one in 10 minutes that looks good enough to sell. As far as selling price, it will depend on your market. I am not in your market, so I don't know what the market will bear. The last 2 years, what I thought was cheap, still didn't sell, people are not buying in our area. Just short on cash these days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My leaves take me 6 years and 10 minutes, it took me 6 years to learn to make one in 10 minutes that looks good enough to sell. As far as selling price, it will depend on your market. I am not in your market, so I don't know what the market will bear. The last 2 years, what I thought was cheap, still didn't sell, people are not buying in our area. Just short on cash these days.



Time to leaf it and try something else? Edited by steve sells
quote cleanup
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Time to leaf it and try something else?


My point was that you must consider all the time you put into training to do demo's. You always have someone walk up, see what you are doing and say "that aint that hard" "I could do that". Or "why do you charge $3 for something that took 10 minutes to make". My answer is 6 years and 10 minutes using the formula I quoted in my other response.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My point was that you must consider all the time you put into training to do demo's. You always have someone walk up, see what you are doing and say "that aint that hard" "I could do that". Or "why do you charge $3 for something that took 10 minutes to make". My answer is 6 years and 10 minutes using the formula I quoted in my other response.


i usta get that a lot ... not so much anymore ... the ones that do ask I will try to ingage in trying smithing ... get some good coustomers that way ... got one guy that saw one of my horsehead hoofpicks made from a horshoe... takes me 15-20 minutes to make he actually stayed fro the Whole demo bought one and tried to make one himself ... came back several times to ask questions... he managed to make one kinda like what i made .. but it wasnt done in 15 minutes.... as far as prices ime lucky ... i have other smiths stuff to compare to for most of what i make so i can guestimate on the rest its one of the toughest parts of being your own boss i think .. how much are you worth? are you worth what a welder gets paid ? a machineist? you ever tried to get a machineist to make a custom part? or had something welded at a welding shop?I do not have a tig welder (yet ) and my dad needed one of his model airplane mufflers welded ... it was a 10 minute job max the guy said 75.00 minimum... so what is a reasonable price? if you have someone in your area makeing the same type stuff and makeing a liveing doing it dont undercut him by 50 % cause you dont need to make anything on it ... that is what most people have a problem with . if your whithin 20% of his price thats ok and expected if you have less expereience than he does... now area does make a big difference as does venu ... if your doing a top end show where the booth space is 1500+ they expect your fireplace set to be expencive but if your at the local farmers market the high end stuff might not be the ticket..also a word from the not so wise but long time expereience finish is all inportant! it dosent matter how nice the animal head looks if when they pick the product up scale (or rust ) comes off in theyre hands! its why a lot of professional smiths use tumblers...it knocks off the scale and gives a "worn smooth" feel ... made a big difference to my sales .. good luck!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually those are leaf Hooks I do at demos taking about 10 mins, patter included.

My first Leaf hook took maybe 15 mins but I'd been smithing for maybe 25 years by then so . . . (not full time mind you, it's still a hobby)

I usually start a student out on a leaf hook, I spend 10-15 mins (depending on questions) demoing a leaf hook. Then I pull up my stool, put a beverage close to hand and plop my rear down. Most students look at me a little funny when I do this but usually 30-45 mins into it and they're still working on drawing the point and stem for the leaf they figure it out. Most students take about 4 hours for the first leaf hook and 20-30 leaf hooks to start making nice ones. I have other first projects that go more quickly depending on how much time and my estimate of their basic eye hand coordination, skills, etc.

When I'm practiced up and have my arm in reasonable condition I can knock out one of the leaves I make in maybe 2+ mins. I'm not nearly that fast at the moment, even though my hammer arm is in good enough condition. My left arm needs recalibrating after shattering it almost 3 years ago. I'm drawing rhombuses instead of square tapers unless I really keep focused on it, kind of like a newby. It REALLY inhibits the patter too and I enjoy . . . No, that's not the word . . . I LOVE to patter.

So to answer the spirit of the question; I don't think I can charge shop rate for how long it took me to do a particular leaf or hook, I have better than 40 years into it.

Frosty

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a general guide a 2 hourcompetition will take a beginners class 2 days (approx 14 hours) to complete and for them to make a reasonable job of it. No rush, just getting it to a "satisfactory" completion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hey, I got some of those $240 "leaves" too! :)


LOL! I think i have a few of those floating around myself!

Seriously, though. This is the main reason that one of the skills that smiths have always emphasized was efficiency. Some of my teachers (often in a not so eloquent or kind manner) would tell me "Are you going to piddle around with that thing all day or are you gonna forge something???" I got yelled at a lot to "finish" my heats and get as much movement(in the metal) out of every heat as possible (without working too cold of course). I was also encouraged to "not be afraid to hit it and move the metal like I meant it. I am thankful for that advice and admonishment too - because it made me able to do more with each heat and really, each blow!

We all learn tricks to do more, faster too (like drawing over the horn, over fullers, etc.) It is because of that training that I am reasonably comfortable just doing hand work. I have had people tell me "Your are going re size that piece by hand???!!! Thats what power hammers are for!", but, I dont own a power hammer and really, if you get used to it, it isnt that bad(of course I am still young - ask me that same question in twenty more years:rolleyes:). As for the whole pricing thing, if you decide your work is worth $40 an hour or more, then try to get as much as humanly possible in that time! Right?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...