Steve Sells Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 (edited) im not quite sure some of you understood what i meant, especially the one who said something about "not making friends" No, you sir are the one that is missing it. I don't know who your teacher friend is, but no one knows everything, not me, not him and not you. We all have much to learn. One thing you need to learn is how much time it take to learn to make a sword, but maybe your school years ends MUCH later than the rest of the USA. Even though on one hand you admit you know nothing, on the other you tell a few of us that DO make high end blades, that you do know more than we do. It was also insulting to tell us you don't need us anymore after getting an answer to a simple question. But dry type in a forum often does not convey the real meanings behind the words, and misunderstandings are common. Everyone makes mistakes, in time we all will see. Good luck I never said don't try, I was trying to inform you as to how deep that pool you jumped into really is. Edited May 12, 2009 by steve sells typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Steinkirchner Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) OKAY. i will quote francis whitaker on the matter of knowledge "one day you may think you are a master, 20 years later you realise you were just crossing the threshold" (or close to that.) the point is that anyone can learn something new (even the critics, and espicially beginners) and noone likes to be told they are not needed (even though i'm sure that wasn't his point). But to the original point, AHEM... assuming you have the tools(which could be as simple as an earthen forge, a basic anvil, TIME, steel (70 points or better), and an oil tank long enough to harden and temper), TIME, patience (no matter how good your instructor is you will fail most blades when you're starting out), TIME, and some research-gained knowledge, there is no reason why in a year you can't at least make a blade with an adequate fit, good asthetics, and reasonable heat treatment, if you have help and instruction from any one you are willing to listen to. which should be most people here. BUT i will say that i too am going to be a senior next year and i am starting on my first sword ,a 30 inch overall leaf blade with brass and blued steel guards, and a hand carved curley maple handle, and a scabbard with my first pattern welding successes for the throat and point.... ... ..but i digress, ive done about 20 knives over 8 inches, 5 daggers, most of my tools i have made or modified, and a 20 inch khukri with a carved scabbard (which i would post if i could get the ******* pictures into the post!). I started smithing at the end of eighth grade with just a 100# fisher anvil (with the heel broken off) sitting on a milk crate, a chipped hammer, and an old pump forge. Now I have a side draft forge with an electric blower, a 10 foot bench with 2 post vices,good hammers, and the crowned jewel... a 300# arm and hammer anvil(my whole shop cost about $600 total, except the forge which cost more than the rest of the shop put together!) but the most important thing for me was to READ EVERYTHING that i could get my hands on. The best... The Blacksmith's Craft, The Complete Bladesmith, The Art of Blacksmithing,and Werk und Werkzeug umm..more german words (Otto Schmirler). the moral? no one knows everything (no matter how good anyone thinks they are), do not get discouraged by the comments of ANYONE...and i mean anyone,and most importantly have fun, be safe, and try it. What have you got to lose? (except for some steel) Edited May 11, 2009 by steve sells language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Steinkirchner Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 oh and the way i got the one vicewas, my dad spent an hour picking onions for an old guy and trying to talk him into parting with it, so there could be 2 vices for under the tree at christmas (the other one was $90) keep your eyes open for good deals, they are EVERYWHERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) YS: "The Complete Bladesmith" eh? ROFL..EXTREME ROFL...It's am OK book for beginners I guess...I myself am way way WAY beyond that book... Good luck.. JPH (and no one say a word...Especially you all...Rich, Steve, Thos. or Glenn)) Edited May 11, 2009 by JPH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Just don't give yourself rope burns JPH okay? Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Steinkirchner Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 well those were the most helpful in the BEGINNING, now i may look ower all of my books from time to time to see if i get any ideas. but yes not much good for anvanced smiths though i still refer to the index in the back and the polishing section often.(i rarely bring anything to a high polish) i have 1 of your other books The Pattern Welded Blade and i believe i have drained all i can from it BTW looking forward to the new book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Metal Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 o.k well see if he cant instruct me correctly, talked to him on the phone the other day and he was more than happy to aid me with my project. all i have to do is pay for the metal i need and he'll guide me the rest of the way. fact is ive seen his work and my grandpa has been a professional mechanic for over 50 years, if he says he's the most talented person he has ever seen working with metal. i wouldnt call him anything like a novice, im going to one of his forges this week. i'll take some pictures and post them. he also used to build railroads in his earlier days, and now does it for fun. he has a smaller forge for things like strike flints and little knives or daggers, and a huge one for god knows what. he made a log cutter from scratch! you put a raw log on it with bark and everything, this machine gets rid of all that stuff, sands it down and cuts the log into desired pieces (2-4, 4-10 ect) so i believe im in good hands. i think he mentioned something about working with black steel, ive never heard of it but it sounds cool. i will be SURE to post pictures of his works, maybe i can silence some of you more arrogant "all mighty super members". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) The term is not super member, its Moderator. We try to guide people and keep the site running smoothly. We tried to let you know its not that simple to just jump in and forge a sword. I have no idea what you think photos of His work has to do with you being able to learn how to make a sword in only a few months. Also its a crime in many places to sell or assist a minor in building a weapon, with out parental consent. And it is never considered mature to call staff foul names. Learn some manners. As for arrogant, I should have Banned you for the foul private Mail you sent me. This is your last chance to act like an adult. We will not tolerate that type of attack on anyone here. Edited July 23, 2009 by mod07 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Hello: Arrogant?? OK..show me where anyone has been in any way, shape or form arrogant other than yourself.... There are people on this board who have been doing hot metal work for longer than you have been on this earth. As for myself..I have been doing this for 40 some odd years...I have clothes older than you....Arrogant..no, fact, yes. I have made more than my share of mistakes, and I continue to do so...EVERYONE does and NO ONE knows it all..No mortal being can. When you add up the years of experience of members on this board it adds up to centuries worth of time. BLACKsmithing is NOT BLADEsmithing..while you do use a majority of basic blacksmithing skills in making a cutting tool, there are major differences..a BLACKSMITH is not a BLADESMIH while a BLADESMITH IS a blacksmith. I truly doubt that any beginner could make a "first time" sword that will pass the British Proof Test..if you know as much as you say you do..you will know what it is off the top of your head and not do a search on it......(If you don't...you have a lot to learn.). This test was devised in the late 1700's and all British sword makers but ONE failed when the testing standard was first introduced. In fact it caused a major upheaval in the British military..Do you even knowk who that maker was? Yeah, anyone can make a SLO (Sword Like Object..a phrase coined by Phil Baldwin and myself back in the 1980's) but a real sword..one that is light and flexible while still remaining stiff enough to function as a sword..one that will flex and return true yet be hard enough to cut steel..to be not brittle and hold together in use...THAT takes skill and dead on thermal treatment. There are a whole lot of folks "out there" that have been trying for years to get to this point and they still haven't.. I have spent the last 25 or so years of my life trying to bring people into bladesmithing in a way where they will learn the right way of doing things...knowing that a sword can not cut down a tree, or slice through a gun barrel or weigh some 40 odd pounds amongst other popular misconceptions..I see now that I still have a whole lot more work ahead of me... No one here..other than you was in any way "arrogant". All the folks said was for you to start out small, learn the basics and then get bigger as you gain skill and knowledge. The learning curve is steep when you first start out but it gets easier as you get to know the steels you are working with. Do as you wish, but to call people here arrogant when all they wanted to do was spare you the frustration and disappointment of working on something for so long and to only have it break or fail...I have seen this happen far to many times..and it is heartbreaking... Dr JP Hrisoulas Henderson, NV USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) The Metal:found out yesterday that my grandpa's friend has a forge right down the rode. so i got lucky, ive seen some of this guy's products as a kid (cant believe in didnt think about this before) and he has made some pretty amazing things. he mostly works with saw steel (very durable to my understanding, and 440 stainless steel too) so thanks for the input, i dont really need much more advice since this guy (tommy) is supposed to be really good. i'll post pictures of some of his works, he makes some HUGE swords (from what i remember when i was younger). Your words... ... i simply stated that i have someone who has been doing this for many years now and that he will be able to tell me anything and everything i need to know. Your words...i will be SURE to post pictures of his works, maybe i can silence some of you more arrogant "all mighty super members". Who is being arrogant??? No one else here has claimed to know EVERYTHING anyone needs to know about anything It is wonderful that you have this gentleman's help. Please don't disrespect him by thinking you have to prove anything about him. If HE thinks he needs to, invite HIM make his own posts. We are not denying that he may be very competent. He would probably like to share as much as we do. However, to say he knows everything or even more than anyone else has sadly disrespected yourself, not to mention many gifted people on this forum. Silence them??? ROTF You understand, this is a public forum, right? ... :D Edited May 12, 2009 by steve sells typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unkle spike Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 "he will be able to tell me anything and everything i need to know" Not if you display the attitude you have shown on here, you wouldn't last in most of our shops 5 minutes..... "True respect is earned, not demanded" As far as "maybe i can silence some of you more arrogant "all mighty super members" I doubt anyone here will be "silenced" as we are too busy sharing information with people willing to listen, and eager to learn. I am one of the lower members on the knowledge totem pole here, and I think if you took a moment to re-read your posts you would understand the sentiment. There are members here that not only do I know, I respect them. I cast my vote for not devoting anymore time on this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Browne Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 OK, now that everyone has had a good rant about this one I think its time to let is slip through to the keeper (cricketing term for all you yanks ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Uh...The Metal...around here "Black Steel" is just steel at room temperature. Yep, pretty cool, all right. You go right ahead and pound on that "Black Steel" and when it cracks in half, come back and tell us all why. I am glad you have an experienced mentor to guide you through this project. I would fear for your safety without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 " I cast my vote for not devoting anymore time on this one... Is there really a subject to this anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I vote to lock the thread down it is no longer serving any useful purpose. Finnr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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