Damascus Mike Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Hi its DM i was wondering if its posible to make a crucible from stuff avalible in a normal hardwarestore?thanx.i wanna make or get a crucble to experiment and to melt cable in it while having a piece in the forge and then taking it out a diping it into the melted cable making it all one piece instead of lots of little wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azIRonSmith Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 It's possible but not worth the trouble both $$$ and danger wise. You might get away with a home made crucible for aluminum or maybe brass but for steel, you really need a good commercial crucible for steel. You don't want to find out that your home made crucible has failed you when you have a load of molten metal in it. If you're lucky it will only be your forge that gets destroyed. If unlucky, you could be destroyed. Speaking of forges, those for metal casting are usually set up differently than those that blacksmiths use. Get a real crucible from a reputable source. They really aren't that expensive. You can get exactly the size and the proper rating for the type of metal and temperature you need. Just think of exploding molten metal flying everywhere if there is a failure and how much money you saved by DIYing it. Definitely not worth it. Also, it sounds like you are new to metal casting. This is not something you want to do without lots of knowledge and lots of safety equipment/procedures in place. Not trying to scare you, but it is a very dangerous hobby if you don't know what you are doing. Of course aren't most hobbies that involve fire are? ;-P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damascus Mike Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 yes i understand but im not talking about doing it as a continues hobby i just wanna get a small crucible like the size of a cofee mug so i can dip the cable into the molten cable to bind them together because im not good at forge welding.well my forge is out dores and its made in such a way that if any molten metal flys out it will just hit the sides of the forge and it wont come close to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 (edited) Please read up a bit more, or I will be forced to nominate you for the Darwin awards. :o Edited April 3, 2009 by steve sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 *NOTHING* in a hardware store will be safe or even possible to melt steel in it. How would you flux or keep an inert atmosphere over it too? What will the melted steel absorb from the crucible? (Melting the steel will result in it changing it's properties.) If you can put a crucible in and out you can get hit with molten steel which will basically travel *through* you doing probably as much damage as a bullet would. With the possibility of steam explosions in mind draw a circle about 25-30 feet in radius from the opening in your forge where the crucible will go. Now stay outside of that circle while you work! Why not just forge weld the cable? Basically if you have to ask this question you are light years away from being able to melt steel in a safe and useful manor---as a hobby or as a profession. Probably safer to do your own appendectomy. Did I mention that this is a really BAD idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Mike - Strike your thought on that from your memory - JK Just a safety tip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damascus Mike Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 well i dont know how to forge weld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Steel is just not something that one melts in a crucible at home. You may be able to melt cast iron or create bloom iron at home but not steel. Melting steel is a rather complicated business and better left to professionals. However if you are intent on doing it consider getting in touch with Lindsey Books as they have how to books on many subjects. Now if you want to learn forge welding don't start with one of the harder things to learn to weld successfully which is cable. I suggest that you start with just trying to get two pieces of mild steel to stick together. I can assure you that most of started that way and progressed onward form there. Learning to forge weld is not hard nor is it easy but it does take a fair amount of practice. You will go through a lot of steel before you are proficient enough to do it right every time but you will one day in the not to distant future be able to forge weld cable if and only if you practice at some of the easier forge welding first. You can't paint like Michelangelo if you have never had success painting like Bob Ross. Practice, Practice, Practice and do it some more. Good luck in your future endeavors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damascus Mike Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 thanx B1946 its true what you say i mean i tried to forge weld a piece of srping steel with out flux and only half of it welded it was about 3cm of forge weld and the rest didnt stick.but hey if anybody has tips or help 4 me on forge welding id love 4 you to share it with me,i wanna forge weld springs steel and titaniam one day.i live 4 damascus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junksmith Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 melting metal in a home foundry A site that interests me greatly yet assures me that casting is WAY more complicated than forging. Enjoy!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damascus Mike Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 i wanna make a crucible forge also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Note that "melting metal" can be anything from -39 degC (mercury) to 3000+ degC Tungsten So saying your forge can melt metal is a bit ambiguous. Now in my forges I have melted: lead, brass, bronze, copper, sterling silver and fine silver. Didn't ever have a need to melt Al or zinc but they would have as they are on the lower end. I would NOT use my forge for melting steel as it would be extremely hard on it as the refractories I generally use are not rated for steel melting temps---the forge welding I do is a solid state process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 DM Glad to see you are progressing away from your idea about dipping cable in molten steel!!! Scary, scary, scary! For this to work, you need to know more than it takes to successfully forge weld! Get a good flux and practice forge welding. Look at utube. After the first few failures you'll see its not that hard once you understand the process. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Budd Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) I wonder if DM started the thread confused? Cabale damascus is sometimes dipped in brass or bronze after forging, partly for strength but mostly for looks. Either way, you need to make the billet before the dipping and as with any molten metal (apart from mercury) it is a dangerous process! DM, I've welded a little cable and regularly forgeweld normal billets of flat steel. For me at least the cable is tricker as you have to tighten the rope up before very gently and carefully tapping it together into a solid billet without burning the fine strands on the outside or not getting the centre up to temp. Maybe practice making simple layered billets up from simple steels like 10XX or W2 and L6 (or in scrappy terms, any old steel/files and saw blades). Once you get your head around the forgewelding process then start playing with different materials. I've had trouble with springs because some cotain chromium,which stops it sticking easily (especially with no flux). As for the forge, I've firewelded things together at shows with my Iron Age setup before. It's a hole in the ground, clay pipe tuyere and a single pot bellows, burning charcoal. This summer I plan to do some pattern welded blades in it for a giggle. Edited April 6, 2009 by steve sells Photo adjustment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damascus Mike Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) well if u go to youtube and type in cable forgeing you will see the way the guy diped the cable into the molten cable Edited April 6, 2009 by Damascus Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 OK, I just took a look at the this: YouTube - Cable forging 002 and he is melting brass or bronze and dipping the cable into the molten metal. He is not dipping it in molten steel. If you pause the video and look at the handle of the knife you will see the brass/bronze highlights. Now all you need to do is learn to forge weld and melt brass and you are all set. His melting furnace is nothing more then stacked firebricks and he has a small commercially available crucible. It looks to be a assayers type of crucible rather then a graphite which is better for multiple uses. :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Wow. I really thought I was in a cyber-warp . I thought I was going to learn about crucibles until I found found that this stopped being about crucibles on page 1 I understand why Glenn needs a proof reader now. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Hey Dodge, You did learn about them in a couple of places didn't you? Like they are not for melting steel in, that graphite is the best and that the assayer white ones don't last too long, now what more is there to learn? I forgot one thing Lindsey Books sells a small book on how to make your own. Now you know it all.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azIRonSmith Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Hmm. After watching that video, you might just be better off forge welding the cable for the knife and the end for the handle. Then just brazing the wire handle with an Oxy/Acetylene torch using some brazing rod and flux. Much safer. The brass really just added more of a highlight than anything overly functional. If you just want a minor brass highlight, you can just use a brass bristle brush and brush the handle while it's still at a black heat to give it brass highlights. Both methods are much safer and easier than having molten brass to dip into. All it would take is one drop of sweat to drop into that crucible and the steam explosion would send molten metal all over the place. Of course no one would sweat with a 2000+ degree forge right next to them right? ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azIRonSmith Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Also, the knife end was definitely forge welded. It was not dipped in the brass to make the blade. Only the handle was dipped. Either way you will need to learn to forge weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damascus Mike Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) yes in know but youve gotta start somewhere.i dont only wanna do blacksmithing i also wanna do metal melting and casting stuff.with long xxxxx tongs Edited April 12, 2009 by steve sells Foul language Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damascus Mike Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 my bad,i didnt think anybody would care about saying that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 IForgeIron is a family forum. You may want to take some time and review the site guide lines. If you would post photos of what you have done so far, it would help folks point you toward information that you can use. For instance photos of your forge that you use for forge welding may need a deeper fire, a different shaped fire pot etc, which we can see in a photo. Post photos of your work so we can make suggestions as how to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Patrick Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Lindsay books has a book on making homemade crucibles. I am not sure if they are intended for that kind of hard service however. I am inclined to think no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I had occasion to attend a demonstration and "pour" by one of major metal sculptors in the New Orleans area. On that particuliar day He and his helpers were pouring 25 pounds of bronze that was a section for one figure in a commisioned work, and lesser weights of bronze for other bits and pieces of the same work. Afterward, while drinking beer from his keg refrigerator, there was an extensive question and answer session about design and equipment for metal casting. On the subject of homemade equipement, tongs, ladels, crucibles, and all the stuff that founders use he response was:The consequences of even a small equipment failure are so tragic when molten metal comes in contact with the human body that even the slightest additional risk is unacceptable. He said, further, that he would not trust his own home made work, let alone anyone elses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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