pkrankow

Whoa! Instant Effervescence!

Welder19, Just got back from Lowes, $6.98+tax. You might be right about my seeing case pricing, it has been years since I have used this stuff. Phil

I am making a propane forge, and could only get some parts in galvanized. Small amounts of zinc being heated and burnt off I find reasonable (electroplated fasteners), but I want to avoid large exposure to zinc, even though it is a necessary nutrient and eliminated from the body reasonably well for a metal, it can quickly build up to toxic levels. I grind away zinc at least 1/2 inch back from any welds on galvanized sheet metal, avoid heating of hot-dip galvanized, solid zinc or die-cast parts, etc. It was recommended by several people to use vinegar or muriatic acid to strip the zinc off. I decided to use white vinegar as I had some. I put my parts in a Ziploc bag with about a quart of vinegar. Overnight the bag inflated and split at the bottom, but the parts remained covered with vinegar. I removed and rinsed the parts, but was very surprised that half the zinc remained. This brings up the first question: How long and how much vinegar is needed to strip say a 2 inch diameter x 8 inch galvanized pipe? Yes, I know thickness of zinc varies from part to part, even in the same batch. I cut up a rinsed out apple juice jug to make a bucket, put my parts in with fresh vinegar and put it in the corner, figuring I would not mess with them today. About 5 minutes later I had to get something out of the garage, and started coughing uncontrollably as soon as I walked in. I opened the garage door and moved the jug outside. It took about 10 minutes sitting outside to feel normal again. My chemistry is very rusty, and the msds for distilled white vinegar (acetic acid 5%) and hydrogen gas seem to be not helpful. Vinegar vapor is listed as an irritant, but does not make me cough like that. I use it to clean with on a regular basis with little ventilation. Hydrogen gas is an odorless, tasteless, non-irritating, flammable, suffocation hazard. My second question is: Why is dissolving zinc with vinegar so vile? Is there a different, possibly toxic, gaseous product produced besides hydrogen? Lastly, is muriatic acid significantly quicker at dissolving zinc? I mean minutes instead of hours or days. Will less be needed? Short soak time is very desirable when working outside without a roof available. Right now it is raining in my jug of vinegar and parts. Cost for a gallon of white vinegar is just a couple of dollars at the grocery store while a gallon of muriatic acid is $20-$30 last I checked. If volume of acid needed is similar, then I can wait a few days to remove the zinc, with my jug outside. Thanks in advance for any insight Phil

Terry, I love your articles. The only thing that struck as off (not wrong) is the mach 1 O2, that is only a function of the nozzle. For a given change of pressure, the speed of sound through the orifice at the lower pressure is the limit of the mass flow rate. Even your tire when you let air out has supersonic flow (it is loud). Having less velocity than mach 1 means that more flow could be put through it. Having more velocity than mach 1 means it has been accelerated by the shape of the nozzle. The mass flow rate however has been limited by the earlier cross-section. This is true for all gasses as long as the starting pressure is above the required pressure for supersonic flow in that medium. I really enjoyed your articles as they bring together many things family members have done in Cleveland Ohio and elsewhere. My Dad (in his younger years) had a job where he cut the rollers for the steel mills, one pass on one roller would take a full 8 hour shift or more. One roller might take over a week of shifts (3 per day) to cut. Defects would be welded by a master welder and then re-cut by the lathe operator. They would also cook coffee and lunches using the hot ingots cooling in the yard as stoves. My cousin worked for a company that made massive forging presses (Ajax). I worked with him for a summer as an internship, I did inspection and learned from all who would teach. Heck the inspection specialist took a vacation leaving me in charge even! I could read a print and use a micrometer, even one over 3 feet across. That caused some bumps as I failed a bunch of stuff, and nobody took me seriously till I explained all the failures individually (most were easily correctable). Another cousin was a chemist in the mills, and would pull and test samples of molten steel in the Lorain Ohio mill. My brother held a job servicing the X-ray and radioactive measuring devices used on modern mills. He even helped (re)develop a low tech air gate sensor to tell if metal was present, saving use of an x-ray device. I have had not read a series of accounts that describe the separate experiences I have been related as a whole. I did find it very enjoyable and entertaining. Thank you for taking the time. Phil

Marine polyurethane varnish (Interlux or Pettit are my choices). You have choice of if an amber tint is added or not. Remove loose rust, wash with denatured alcohol or acetone (alcohol is more work but safer for you, wear gloves), Wash on with one rag, off with another, change rags as necessary. Rub first coat in with a lint-free rag, work till slight tack starts, but not real sticky. This rag will also turn rust color, so change out as needed. Apply 2-3 additional coats per re-coat times on label using method of your choice. The UV inhibitors will make your coating last for quite a while. You are stuck with a "wet look" even if you add flattening agent to the top coat. You will need to do maintenance re-coating every year or two depending on exposure, otherwise the coating will start to fleck and you will have to remove and start over. As always test first on a sample piece or section and see if you like it. Since you are talking about a natural oil varnish already, you will like the reduced maintenance of polyurethane. If you chip the coating, repair it asap by rubbing in new poly. If new rust gets started under the coating, you need to strip and start over. Crevices are always a problem. You may end up filling them with poly. Oil coatings will need monthly maintenance to keep the appearance nice, depending on weather, exposure, and environment. Texas being sunny and less wet you may get more time between treatment. Natural varnish will also have shorter life. You may be better served by painting with a satin or flat rust brown/red color unless you have significant variation in color you are trying to preserve. Any coating will reduce the variation you have already. Initial material choices can affect your rusted gate. Some architectural steels self seal to a nice even rust color over time. I can't quote alloy though. Phil

There is MUCH worse than warm gatorade. I've been enamored with metal, wood, and fire for a very long time. My parents never let me try much with hot metal, but Dad and I did some cold forming of brackets and such, more than a few times. Shop classes were cut back when I got to high school, so there was only wood shop, drafting and engine repair left. All the metal trades were cut. I learned basic welding in collage and became fair at it when Dad got a MIG welder. (Funny thing is that my brother and dad only use flux core anymore.) About a year ago I was repairing the exhaust on my car, and broke a bracket. It was mostly rusted through. Nice piece of 3/8 rod, upset on the ends, bent into a funky shape to tuck into the rubber hangers. So I moved the gravel around in the chiminea to make an air passage, I'd call it a tuyere, but I had no blower. I used a very short railroad track section as an anvil, and a claw hammer. My camping hatchet was my hot cut tool. From natural air flow I got a nice hot fire, hot cut, and bent up my new bracket complete with upset ends. I used an "aircraft" clamp to hold it to the pipe, and it is working great. I used the rest of the rod to make a fire poker. While I easily reached cherry red, I could not get any hotter. Then the bottom broke out of my chiminea. Glad it was on a brick patio, and not wood. I've spent the last year reading all I can find, and now am starting to put a propane forge together. Adding to my difficulty the scrap yards are now no public access. You drop off, but cannot buy. Phil

Now I know what to try with some old chains that got into dirt. Beautiful little bug. Phil

Other things to consider is will the receiving location be a business with a dock, a business without a dock, or a home. I had some heavy things shipped to work so they could be unloaded with a fork truck for me. Lift gate fees will run $50 and up. If you lack a "dock" which can be a parking spot and a machine to unload with, ask around to your local businesses who receive regular loads of goods. These can be hardware stores, marinas, equipment dealers, etc. These places can offload your goods (anvil) for a nominal fee (sometimes just a case of pop or beer) and load it into your vehicle with same equipment. Since the carrier is dealing with a "dock to dock" situation there is less cost. Even less if one or both docks are on scheduled LTL (less than load) routes. Some carriers will let you pick up at their terminal too so it won't hurt to ask. One store I worked for would receive all sorts of stuff for our landlord. We were the only business in that strip that had a forklift. He had deliveries often enough that he stopped asking, they would just show to C/O etc. We would get a propane refill out of him for "big" projects, but not often. Other stores would ask before they scheduled deliveries of shelving or equipment. We would play nice when asked nice. Phil

Is an oil quench less prone to fracture? I know some metals are meant for oil quench and others are meant for water quench. Could this be an example of the wrong quench being used? Is there an easy guide to decide what quench agent to use? I know quenching causes stress in the metal. Will holding the part at temperature for a long soak (5-10 min or so?) instead of getting temperature color and quench be better? I have had terrible luck with heat treating, even when assisted by a lab aid in school. At least a process failure did not affect the grade as long as it could be remade that semester. Phil

There is one real picture on the site now for the 242-lb Papa Rhino. I don't recall seeing it last time I looked a few weeks ago. Phil

I use the bucket/milk crate method for anchor rope on the boat as well as electric cords. You can pull out just the amount needed then coil it back when done. Always coil cords and rope so there is no added twist in them. If your cord gets a spiral look to it you are significantly shortening its life. Coiling your cords over your arm is very hard on both the cords and your body. Storing on a large diameter hanger, or flat in a Rubbermaid box (easy to shelve, transport), milk crate, or bucket is best to prevent kinks. Wrapping the end of the cord about itself causes the ends to wear out more quickly, but shortening a cord and re-ending is cheap. Plugging a cord into itself can help reduce tangles as the ends cannot wrap through the coil. I have a plastic hose wall hanger for my air hose. I keep the tire stuff inside the built in box. They are not expensive, but the empty spools and old rims mentioned are a better price (free). I want to install a permanent air system, but probably won't for a few years. My dad had problems with his self coiling cord job as it kept shorting or breaking the cord or the coil mechanism. No one in my family uses them anymore. I don't remember overheating/melting/burning being a problem, but we would be using drills, drop lights, or relatively low draw devices. I like the idea of pull-down outlets in the center of the shop/garage. I make or buy a 20ft 12ga cord that ends up being most used as it gets to where I am working and is short enough to rarely tangle. I either have a triple tap end or 4 plug box for light tools. I always need a 100 ft cord around, but it is not used very often. I have a total of about 300 ft of extension cords, mostly stored flat in a plastic tote box (Rubbermaid). Braiding cords is convenient, but shortens the life of the cord. I have worked with people who insist on it. Start in the middle, double the cord over and do a single tuck braid with the doubled cord. I never use this method anymore. I keep a pilot light triple tap as I have a crawlspace service space with no lights. The pilot light is enough to get out with, or find the ends if you unplug yourself, in the dark. Otherwise, pilot light ends are not very helpful to me. Phil

That press looks suspiciously like a log splitter with a set of dies clamped to the base and blade. Even a small electric splitter is generating 6 tons of total force. Swisher Electric Log Splitter

Wow, that is an impressive material. It is NOT used in marine applications because it is not available in large pieces. I made some traditional sailmaking tools years ago, but did not encounter this wood in my research and inquiries. I ass/u/me(d) that it was something else. My apologies. Phil

Is that cocabolo or lignum vitae? Both are very dense and resinous and favored for hardness, durability and rot resistance, but cocabolo sometimes will float, and lignum vitae sinks always. I have been trying to get lignum vitae for YEARS. I know that the navy used blocks of lignum vitae on pre-nuke vessels as water-cooled, water lubricated propeller shaft bearing material, but the specialty wood dealers I have worked with have been unable to even get recycled bearing, and there are restrictions to import fresh lignum vitae. The knife is lovely and looks like a nice size for many outdoor activities. Possibly the only change would be some nice cut checkering at key positions in the wood to improve grip as any resinous wood that can be called "ironwood" won't raise grain when wet and will become very slippery. Phil

Makes me wonder where the rest of the fork truck is...but I don't think my little cavalier can handle that. Email me directly if you want to give me a treasure map.

I like the steel block idea, but all the scrap yards are closed to the public in this area. I guess there were some lawsuits in Ohio about people getting injured picking through metal piles. I don't know what the auto-farm bone yards have available but my recent parts scrounging expeditions have had me go pay dealer prices because they were cheaper...darn plastic body parts. Maybe I will have an excuse to learn and practice forge welding if worn out steel can be had for a good price.

Wow, I suddenly feel better about the poor anvil I picked up at a flea market. Heel is broken off at the pritchel and hardy and the edges are chipped rather badly. Weighs 68 lbs on the bathroom scale. Any thoughts on using a log for a pritchel... other than the obvious -it's going to burn some? I have a number of maple logs not yet split for firewood, a drill, and a set of spade bits. I could even chainsaw a section out of the side to let the tool drop through. Is a relatively small (4 inch x 4 inch) piece of #11 sheet steel adequate to protect a log pritchel? I have heard of people using a log for some hardy tools with a piece of sheet metal or even nothing to protect the wood, but never mention of a wood pritchel. The granite block did cross my mind, I like the cobble stone idea. I used the concrete step of the garage growing up to straighten all sorts of hot and cold pieces of metal for my dad growing up. Sometimes I think it was so he could work and hear that I was not getting into trouble, but that step took it. Phil

I'll keep the stove pipe idea in mind. Cutting with snips and fastening with pop rivets have an appeal (especially since I have those tools), however the drum is free if I can ever get it from my brother. He throws one out every week or so at his oil change shop, but that is a 2 hour drive away from me. I hope one or two show up when he visits next week. (Maybe I could ask at a local shop if they throw the same drum out too.) Part of the reason for 3 inch of insulation is to get an 8 inch chamber. A 10 inch chamber requires over 4 burners for 18 inch at 350 cu in per burner. An even smaller chamber may be all I need, but I have been basing my design on getting a 16 gallon drum. Anvilfire offers a price break at 10 ft of insulation making the 3rd inch effectively free. I have not found a better price. I built 5 burners, but only 4 are worth anything as the first had a BIG problem with ugly. Ugly threads, ugly off center hole, ugly torn out brass fitting when it sucked onto the drill bit...just plain UGLY. I finished building it to see what problems I would encounter before building another. I was thinking about using #4 for out of the forge spot heating on a fixed, but movable bracket, but the heating off the burner I tested was ...very slow... in open air, running rich, on 1/2 inch square stock. I may have a spare burner instead. I'm not yet ready to buy an oxy/fuel torch. Thank you for all the help. Phil

Cover it yes, make sure it can get air at all times. A 5 gal bucket with part of the side cut out might be nicer than a big drum as it would only cover the mechanism, and is cheap. A hinged table that folds over would be excellent too as you get a bonus work space. The idea is to shed direct water. The paint is a good idea. I've been around boats all my life and the cables used for trailer winches are always getting wet. A simple cover doubles the life of them, as long as it can breathe. Lubrication doubles cable life again. Phil

Here's where I started: I did get some stuff wrong and as I worked came to solutions. http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/122271-post20.html http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/122282-post21.html http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/122309-post22.html While I agree with Frosty on giving too much fine detail as your parts will be different and you will need to make adjustments, I am going to tell what I did. Remember that your BRAIN is your most powerful tool, use it and make adjustments accordingly. Parts list per burner: 0.035 inch contact tips. These have 1/4-28 threads on them. 1/8 MPT to 1/4 compression fitting (all stores in my area sell the same brand) 1 x 1 x 3/4 black iron T. The 3/4 comes off the side. 3/4 x 6 inch pipe nipple Tool list: #3 drill bit, HSS, dulled slightly. #P drill bit 3/4 to 1/2 inch reducing bushing 1/2 inch MPT to 1/2 inch hose fitting drill bit that fits inside above hose barb smoothly.(I used 25/64, you may need a different size) Drill press (hand drill will work well here as we build a jig) 1/8 inch tapered pipe tap 1/4-28 tap wrenches, file etc. vice process: Pic 1 shows the first burner I made with the parts to make the next before I started. Pic 2 & 3 I build up a jig out of the reducing bushing and the hose barb to fit a drill bit. This bit is much LARGER than the finished hole. so we are just making a spot to center the correct drill bit. Pic 4 & 5 I complete the hole with the correct size bit. I went undersized to #P (from #R)as my first try did not thread completely. Using the jig with some tape on the drill would likely help keep things more true, especially if using a hand drill. Pic 6 I dulled the #3 drill bit by filing the back side of the cutting surface. This is to prevent the drill from sucking into the brass and going crooked or causing personal injury. Pic 7 My cheap drill press vice needed a spacer to close tightly. I used another fitting to space my jaws out on the opposite side. I am very careful to restrain my vice so it will not be picked up by the drill. check alignment several times then go for it. I do not know how to do this with a hand drill other than being very careful in a bench vice. Pic 8 tap all the way through. Yes you don't need to go that far, but I lack bottom taps and wanted to be sure. Pic 9 I tapped my T, but did NOT go all the way in. I only want the male pipe thread on the compression fitting to go in as far as the pipe is thick. This is because Frosty says tuning for lean involves shortening the length of the contact tip from about 3/4 inch to 5/8 inch. I will do that after my forge is built so I can tune into the proper space. Pic 10 I have all my completed parts and am ready for assembly. I will be using muffler assembly putty (Muffler Mender) on the threads as they will get hot, and pipe dope is for lower temperatures. This is recommended on the antique lanterns I use (my current fire fix, search for Petromax). Be careful to not get any INSIDE the contact tip. If you ever need to take this apart, the muffler putty will crumble with a few light taps of a wrench or pliers. Pic 11 Here are my complete burners, they are practically identical, but will require individual tuning when I put them in service. pic 12 & 13 This is one of my burners lit. I am trying to show heat on an old fireplace rack, but in the 5 minutes I let it run, it did not start to glow. My flame is rich, which according to Frosty means that my contact tips need to be shortened. He recommends locking them in a drill chuck and using an abrasive tool like a dremmel to cut them nicely. I think I need to remove about 1/8 inch. I will do so when I get my forge built and can test it in the cavity. Pic 14 is taken from Ron Reil's website and shows flame color for rich neutral and lean nicely. I need to build the rest of my system and tune it properly. I am going to use copper tubing from the compression fittings to my valved manifold. I am unsure if the use of an idle circuit is worth the complexity, but plan to put one in anyways. I do not have a pressure gauge yet as I am using a "Mr. Heater" 30-60 psi regulator, it says it can regulate down to 0 psi (it can), but is intended for the upper range. I will put a gauge onto the manifold when it is built. I intend to use a 16 gallon drum which has an outside diameter of 14 inches as my shell. I am going to line with 3 inches of ceramic wool insulation and a coating of heat reflecting refractory (itc100 or similar) with fire brick as the forge floor. I am thinking about "squishing" my drum by 2 inches to make it 12 x 15 3/4 to reduce cavity volume and increase floor space. It will be 18 inches long with doors to reduce the openings to 4x6 or so. I hope to post a finished forge in a month or two, as I blew all my hobby money on tools and parts to make these burners. Hope you like it Phil

An old machinist set me up with some "baby poop" it's some sae20 oil, baking soda, and chalk. There may be something else in it too, but I don't remember seeing anything else when he mixed it. If you are dealing with work-hardened holes, or larger bottom tapping, this stuff is the best. Keep it in a closed container, glass or metal. I wish I had the exact recipe, but it was about getting consistency. If you have had kids, you will understand (I didn't at the time, but do now). It's non-fluid, but slightly runny and sticky, sorta like what the name implies. It tends to not separate for WEEKS after mixing, and then only a slight amount of oil comes to the top. The summer I spent in a machine shop we were cleaning up some parts that failed inspection, threaded sleeves something like 1 1/2 or 2 inch diameter threads. We would lock them in a vice, goop up the bottom tap with "baby poop" and thread it in as far as it would go by hand, then put a wrench and a 6 ft cheater bar on it. Then 2 of us would crank it through the last 5 or 6 turns. Good times! The first unit we wasted a pint of tap magic on (might have been 4 oz really). I do like tap magic for "normal" holes though. I have a small jar of this stuff from that summer, and it is fantastic for drilling in easily hardened metal too. I think I need to experiment and make more soon. Phil

I like how the compression fitting eliminates the need for tapping for the contact tip. Or does it? In a different thread you posted today it sounds like you just use tap the compression fitting for the contact tip and throw out the rest of the parts to it. I keep reading about people worried about the compression fitting failing...I've never seen a fitting fail on a _water_ system except when it was messed with, or right after installation. On gas systems do I want to limit my use of compression fittings to the ABSOLUTE minimal necessary? I intended to plumb from my manifold to the burners with non-rigid copper and compressions fittings, one at the manifold and one at the burner. Would I be better off to use brass or steel rigid pipe and build my manifold mount after I build everything else? Would using a double flare connector (like on brake lines) be significantly better vs compression (or worse than rigid)? I did pick up a HF drill press, so I should be able to drill through the "bottom" of the T. Center punching first is a no-brainer? Do you pilot drill with a smallish diameter (say 1/4 inch) drill first then finish your drilling or go all at once for the measured final size based on your fittings? Sounds like the crosses are more complexity then they may be worth. Would mounting the burner with a no-weld device similar to Zoeller's be equally effective, or should I really pack up my pieces and head to Dad's to weld them up? Is your method just more cost effective or are there other benefits? The welder is on the wish list...but may not arrive for a year or two. I must also remember to open "calculator" and double check my mental math. I intend to use a 16 gallon drum with 3 inches of insulation for my forge. I could make it 24 inches long, but do not think I can get welding temperature from only 3 burners. I was thinking 16-18 inches long, then I will have enough insulation to build doors. (from 10 running feet of 24 inch width) I am interested in decorative items including gates, scroll work, and hinges, but want to try Damascus (and possibly wootz). Would "squishing" the drum by 2 inches as a means of reducing my total volume and increasing floor area be a good idea? Volume per inch is reduced from 50 cu inch per inch length to about 35 cu inch per inch length. That would make the outside 12 tall and 15 3/4 wide. The inside would be 6 tall and 9 3/4 wide instead of 8 inches round (before installing the shelf). Total volume at 18 inches long would be 900 cu inch for round and 630 cu inch for squished elliptical. Installing the burners to heat left of center, mounted at about 2 o'clock seems to be considered very nice by most people. Tangential entry for a forge seems to be much more controversial, but seems preferred for a foundry. If you had a 68# steel anvil (no make on it, actual weight) with the heal broken off at the hardy and pritchel holes, had a flat top, level horn and badly chipped edges, would you A) attempt to repair the anvil, replace the anvil ASAP, or C) use the anvil as such and find an alternative for the hardy and pritchel. (yes I paid $50 for it at a flea market, should have tried to talk him down further, was marked at $70) Lastly I apologize for taking this thread somewhere I think it was not going. My forge design is really not taking Db levels into account. Phil

Frosty, So your T's are 3/4 inch and the pipe is 3/4 inch? About how long is the final piece of pipe? Does the length of pipe need to be tuned? Using the 8 diameters guide makes the pipe about 6 inches long...Does it work well with a longer pipe? Should I start with an 8 inch pipe and cut it down till it works best? What size is your orifice? Are you using MIG contact tips (your picture seems to indicate so)? Would using a black iron pipe cross and a plug work easier for someone of limited machining capability? There are some brass pipe-to-hose nipples that hold a piece of 1/8 inch brass pipe near perfectly, allowing for a slip fit. A compression clamp (U-bolt) similar in function to an exhaust clamp would lock the pipe solid in place after adjusting, since soldering is not recommended, or rather, strongly discouraged in this system. I understand that you use a lamp tube to pass through the wall of the T. Using a tap & die set is there a better way, or is the adjustment in this part of the system that important? Do you need to tune the depth of the fuel nozzle in the T, or is it pretty darn good all the way back? Do you use a choke? If so, what type of choke do you use? Have I forgotten any questions? You seem to be a respected and knowledgeable person on this forum, but when talking about your own designs you just post tantalizing tidbits and pictures, without clear specifics(yes I know my system will vary from yours or anyone else). I have read many of your posts about this T burner, and I feel I am resorting to pumping you hard for information. You and several others seem to feel that the linear Reil burner, while very effective, has stability problems when used in an outdoor environment due to cross drafts. At this point in my design I would rather select a better way than waste the pieces I already have. I intend to use my (not yet built) forge outside or at least in open air, such as the open garage door. Thank you for your time and effort. Phil

Go to your local marina or boat supply store and ask for bronze wool. (or look it up online) The stuff is uses to refinish teak wood because the bits that fall off won't corrode in the marine environment. Phil