Bull Sigh

"This is pure conjecture on my part, but the single eye visible in the screenshot above, leads me to think that there may be some arrangement like this: (pic snipped)" JHCC, if that is the case, would you guess that the handles were milled to that shape or formed wet/steamed? I'd be interested to know the mass of the 2-handle hammer in the anchor chain picture. Maybe over 100 pounds?

I'll probably buy some of the HT guides through Amazon. They aren't cheap there, but are much less than through ASM. I took some of the ASM HT and other classes back in the 90's and they were worthwhile, if a bit antiquated at times. At the time, my employer was doing research on surface hardening of Incoloy bits. I keep looking longingly at EvenHeat's website, knowing I'll probably never get one of their ovens.

Some "octagonal" handles have quite a bit of rounding at the vertices. I like the feel. My smithing hammer handles are mostly oval, made by Flatland Forge. I sometimes wish they were larger diameter but I'm learning to like them. I have a 2.5 pound cross peen hammer made by Collins that has a larger oval that was, IIRC, about $20 at Home Depot. I'll have to give a Beaver Tooth octagonal a try if they are still available.

A friend of mine has a 40 pound sledge hammer he bought from a guy in Alaska. Just one handle. I "swung" it once just to prove I could, but I admit is was not an impressive swing.

It is laughable that you believe Wil had too much integrity for the show. As I included in my post above: At about 4:57, Wil says: "I'm not gonna lie. Like I've had more classroom instruction on making a knife than anybody else in history of f**king knifemaking." People with integrity don't feel the need to make statements like that. If you watched as you claim, you saw J, Dave and Doug attempted to educate Wil, season after season. If Wil was the most educated student of knife-making in history, why did J have to school him so much? In the first place, having classroom instruction does not ensure expertise. There are many poor students that don't learn fundamentals and some of the stuff Wil said on the show demonstrated lack of knowledge. People with demonstrated expertise often end up teaching. Does Wil teach blade-making? Look at the on-the-road series and the schools selected by the judges. There you see demonstrated expertise and excellence, not in Wil's bragging. I'll go back to one of your comments above: "Apparently, what killed the show was unethical behavior amongst the judges, according to the first host Will Willis, who quit the show over it." That is incorrect. In the Youtube interview, Wil says he was dismissed, then later said his contract was not renewed. That is not the same as quitting. I understand Wil's beefs with the changing direction of the show, the problems of having judges compete against contestants, etc. In real time, my own words to friends were that the producers had set themselves onto a slippery slope. The cheap shots Wil took at the judges in the Youtube video do not equate with proof of integrity on his part.

"Start cold and stay cold.. " That's basically what I was getting at when I said "warm enough but not comfortable". If you do technical waterfall ice climbs, after you complete the approach, you put on crampons and boulder at the base with just your liner gloves on, gripping ribs in the ice. You hands will get cold-shocked, so you put your warm gloves back on and walk around to get blood flowing again. Then boulder again in liners. Then you are set to climb the steeps for a few hours because bouldering ice in liners will dilate your finger capillaries. Harsh weather requires the right state of mind, but being fit and tough helps alot. By the time it gets down to -10 F, I'm not the happiest camper around.

Maybe try a courser grit?

Wild. You have loads of real experience. I used to use spit-glued toilet paper for ear plugs at rock concerts. I've run front of house quite a bit, the last 10 years of that with high quality noise suppression earphones. I shoot handguns, rifles and shotgun alot, so for that I use plugs plus headphones.

Agreed, Frosty. I've dealt with -40F on winter climbs and stayed warm enough but not comfortable. I've done many days of firewood work in the -10 to -20 range. It was like Zipper Wars. In the hot and humid zone, I'd wear minimal thin wool clothes and pour water on it. And suffered. I've passed out from heat exhaustion and it sucks bad.

Good analysis, Frosty. As a former research manager, I used contract renewal leverage as a tool to steer for adherence to QC, team engagement, efficiency, etc. For Wil, I think a runaway ego led to a runaway mouth. I had concerns about the production direction fairly early but still watched to see if I could learn anything.

"Like everything, it's time, money or both.. What I have learned from this project is it's all 3 on a regular basis.. they just swap positions at will." Another t-shirt-able quote.

Tucson is awesome from about mid-September to early May. I've done lots of hiking and rock climbing in the area and love Mt. Lemmon, Cochise Stronghold, Saguaro NP, etc. As a whole, AZ is one of my favorite states to visit. So incredible. I'm a desert rat at heart, but just can't take the heat anymore. I'm making myself sound pretty lame here. I used to be tougher, honest. I'm guessing heat tolerance is a major factor for Tucson forges in the summer... "The farrier work is the worse part.." I've never done it at all. I have tended horses when friends and family went on vacation, and have ridden quite a bit. Most of that went well, but I have taken a couple of kicks and have been tossed off. "People say to me when I'm working that I love the summers heat and humidity.." I grew up in a hot, humid area and worked outdoors. Once I got out of school, I taught tech in LA and on the Gulf coast of TX, so I have endured the wet heat. Being retired now, I can choose more often to be where the climate matches my clothes. I have the gear and the knowledge to deal with nasty conditions, but stay clear when I can. This summer, I worked in the heat 7 days a week and beat it by arriving before sunrise and bailing when it got nasty. Retirement has been fun. When you are up to full speed, do you have any clues about summer comfort in your school building with a bunch of forges running at once? The high ceiling and large room volume will surely help. A fan and vent system would be great.

Looks good, MeltedSocks. I'm tempted. Any idea how stable it is (temperature drift vs. time) ?

"I work outside and winter get less and less fun." I hear you. I'm old now and have less go-juice to keep me warm. We've had some days around 0 to 10F this fall and I've managed to get out and do a little work, mostly cutting and splitting firewood, but I just can't put in long days when the temps are below about 20. It's hard to believe I used to do winter mountaineering and ice climbing on big peaks. I guess I've just gone soft in my old age. Not losing sleep about it...

Thank you for the feedback, JHCC and Frosty. I have a little experience with polyester resins, long ago. My dad and I built a hardwood fishing boat frame and put a polyester & fiberglass skin over it. It held up good for ~20 years till he decided to size up and got an aluminum boat. Great times fishing with dad...

"Do you have a favorite brand or style that you use for woodworking projects?" I don't own one yet, but am shopping around. Gransfors Bruk makes a beauty but they want two arms and a leg for it: $220. Similar pricing to the axe by Strongway tools. Husqvarna has a decent axe for $85 but I have not found one in stock locally. OP: Estwing makes an axe they call a Rigger's Axe that looks very similar to your photo. $30 on Amazon.

The Youtube I referenced was an interview with Wil. It has his words. They contradict what you have said here.

I didn't know about the behind the scenes infighting at FIF until reading this thread, so I searched around. It is not accurate to say Wil quit the show. Go to Youtube and search for "The Truth About Forged In Fire Wil Willis". It was an interview with Wil put up by FNG Academy. Wil says he was "dismissed" and later says his contract was not renewed. Basically, he was fired and was told that people on the show did not feel safe with Wil around. Wil admits to threatening Ben Abbot and making drawings of someone being stabbed with labels that say things like: "Kill them all". The Youtube I mentioned above does not make Wil look like the innocent victim. I kinda wonder if he was a bit intoxicated during the filming of it because he says stuff I seriously doubt. At about 4:57, Wil says: "I'm not gonna lie. Like I've had more classroom instruction on making a knife than anybody else in history of f**king knifemaking." I watched the show enough to know that Jay, Dave and Doug gave Wil much basic on-the-job instruction on many aspects of blade-making and testing, history, etc. If that was all posed and in fact, Wil was the true expert that was playing dumb for the camera, then his arguments about personal integrity and fraud go out the window. I do not believe that Wil entered FIF knowing more about cannister Damascus, heat treating or forge welding than J Nielson. The derogatory things Wil says about the judge's focus on handles is a big red flag to me. The judges are right - the handle is a top tier design and build aspect of knives and swords that have a huge impact on real-world, hands-on use and testing. Wil shot his claim of being the SME in the foot with that commentary. Much of the YT interview makes Wil look bad, in my opinion. He had his moments on the show that I appreciated, but many of his claims in the interview do not ring true.

"Bull, you can probably get one made at your local tee shirt shop but I doubt that there is one in Westcliffe. Pueblo? Salida? Alamosa?" I spend about 30% of my time N of Denver and have a friend in Boulder that makes great T's and cuts me a deal. The front could be a hammer logo with motion streaks and "I Forge Iron".

"So a few oil changes will do wonders." Agreed, combined with the right load, good oil delivery, etc. I've seen engines and drive trains recover after huge abuse and neglect. Ultimately, wear and tear takes all, but TLC extends life. The weather is getting hostile here. Getting work done will take focus the next few months. Good time to hunker down and set priorities.

Great work and photos. Keep on keepin' on.

I used to work for a large chemical company that makes a wide range of epoxies. I spent a few years supporting epoxy research, mostly updating testing methods and making new composites. It was fun work because we were breaking things and getting paid for it. The research team had a long history of making composites like fiberglass and related materials. My part mostly focused on carbon fiber composites for military applications. We won the contract for the F117A skin and helped formulate it with the DOD's proprietary additives. Relative to this thread, I fiddled around with wood/epoxy laminates testing and did some steel/wood/epoxy glue-ups. I was shocked to see how an optimal epoxy made incredibly strong wood/epoxy laminates. Wood/epoxy/steel glue ups were much trickier to understand, probably due to the stiffness of the steel we were working with and the compliance of the wood. I took double bit axe heads with hickory handles to failure without epoxy, then tried to make epoxy glue-ups out-perform the without-epoxy axes. I had to add texture to the steel inside of the handle hole to out-perform the without-epoxy axes. Epoxy will penetrate many soft- and hardwoods and form a very strong bond. You can take SPF 2x4's and make a clean-up cuts to the end grain and glue the cleaned end-grain together and get an amazingly strong bond, way beyond a product like Gorilla Glue. If you do a TRS-type failure test, it will often fail about 1/2" away from the glue joint. That is due to the epoxy penetration into the wood, which forms a strong composite (ish) zone that is stiff enough to make a sort of stress-riser area during testing in the wood outside the impregnation zone. Under the best outcomes, the textured steel / epoxy / hickory glue up will out-perform a without-epoxy handle mount. Some failure tests show failure at the steel-epoxy bond interface. You have to have the right handle-to-steel fit that will allow an epoxy thickness that is uniform and thin. Preliminary testing with additives in the epoxy like ultra-fine sand or talc looked promising. My own typical axe mis-use is a larger factor than any advantage a high tech epoxy glue-up might provide. Putting a few drops of epoxy on the wood wedge is probably the best bang-per-buck usage of epoxy in hammers or axes. I have 8 pound and 12 pound Monster Mauls around for my sloppy wood-splitting technique.

I'd like to have that quote on the back of a t-shirt. ----- I've found that research is 5 to 10 times more labor intensive than I think it will be when getting started...

Here I go, replying to another long-dormant thread... Frosty, your solid logic and safe quench tank practice shows good, old-fashioned common sense. That is a trait lacking not only in AI, but in far too many modern humans. I am concerned that humanity is on the verge of going below critical mass on logical decision making capability. Agreed on making big flash fires for the camera. I think my more boring approach results in less hair loss and less other unexpected problems.

Here I go reviving a thread that's been asleep for years... I've watched most of the FIF episodes and, somewhat consistent with the comments of this thread, I found the show to be a mixed bag. The worst episodes had to be embarrassing for the judges whereas the best were entertaining, educational and funny. One I really liked was: Season 10, Episode 20, "Doug Marcaida's Secrets of the Forge" There is also a good episode where Ben Abbot, J Neilson and David Baker sequentially make blades in their home forges without tight time constraints. My take is that the producers looked at the number of viewers they had over time and tried to grow the show, with limited success. Wikipedia shows viewership data. The producers should have known that they were trying to tap into a limited audience, long term. I would have liked to see them make an episode or two per year where they integrated the learning experiences of the season. Many of the bladesmiths repeated critical errors that others had already committed in earlier seasons, like not cleaning up mating surfaces before trying to make a forge weld, or making blades brittle by forging in water, etc. More detail could have been given to illustrate the key learning points, such as to drill your handle holes before quenching.