forgemaster

Now don't great minds think alike, I actually tried to post this same question this morning but the post got lost some how, so I've come back this arvo only to see that Grant has beaten me to it. I reckon looking at the grain size that this piece has been either burnt or oversoaked at high temps. Seeing as the material is only known as pry bar and we don't know the exact chemical comp it would be critical to keep in a safe forging range, too hot and you'll burn, it too cold and you'll crack it. As Grant hinted at working in direct sunlight can cause you to underestimate the heat you are taking your work to. It is also wise to remember that an increase in carbon content brings about a coresponding decrease in the melting point of steel. I recall many years ago as an 2nd year apprentice driving a 20CWT hammer for a newly qualified tradesman ( ie an apprentice just finished his time) we were to forge some what we called P8 which was a work hardening manganese steel (1.2% carbon 12% manganese was used for strong room and safe wall reinforcement)) we just chucked it into the furnace when it was nice and hot (1250 deg C) pulled it out over to the hammer and wacko. Well it just about disintergrated into 1000000s of little grains of steel sand all over the die with the first hit. So OK, into the chipper with that one, into the office and look at the book, ah ha, preheat slowly and uniformly to about 600 deg, raise quickly to forging temp of about 950 to 1050 degrees. forge straight away don't soak, cease forging and reheat at 900 deg, anneal immediately after forging. Lesson learnt. Different steels require different procedures and will forge at different temps. To have a known outcome it really helps to have a known steel grade. Have fun Phil

No matter where a bloke goes for some rest and solitude them xxxx yanks keep on poppin up, n sayn Hiyall. Now we've even got one trying to be one of us ozzies! The cheek of it! Who left the gate open and let Grant anyway.

Bit iffy using HSS under a hammer though. Phil

If you are going to do this you need to use pre heat, post weld heating, the correct rods (not 6010 or 6011 they are just mild steel general purpose) and you probalbly need to peen the weld after welding to relive stresses and induce grain refinement. Then normalise it. Then you need to heat treat the whole thing back to standard OEM. But then this is when you dont even know what grade of steel they used in the first place. We use lawn mower blades to remanufacture blades for drain root cutters for the water board here but we buy new blades from a known supplier that supplies us a quality product of a known steel grade. We have programable tempering furnaces, hardness measuring machines etc, and have about 25 years experience in doing this and we are not welding them, only cutting drilling and regrinding them then heat treat. Just easier to buy some new blades from the shop I think, or try Ebay. I suppose that we should be glad that you don't own a helicoptor and need new blades for that.

In the 70s I had a mate who always wore his hair in a 'fro. Oh wait, that was an afro.

Thanks Patrick, who makes Vascowear ,its not a name I have heard before. Ta Phil

I'll chip in for NSW as well. Ditto to what the other 2 said. Cheers Phil

Hey Grant Double edge comes from queensland where they have to spell beer like this XXXX cause they arent too good at spelling, (but at the moment they seem to be good at playing football) Phil

See if you can get hold of Dale he has a lot of contacts in Melb, if you head towards Newcastle way give us a yell, we may have something for you. To the south of Sydney Moonie may make you welcome, although he's a little hard to get on with sometimes. Cheers Phil

Ta Grant Will contemplate some of your ideas. I may if time forge up one of these blanks and punch it while getting some photos taken tomorrow so as you can see the process better. We use the hammer to punch these as after punching them we hold the tooll with the hammer to knock the hammer we are forging out of the tool with a sledge,(are you confused now). Then we in the same heat forge the octogan on both ends of the hammer. I'll post one of the hammers in its finished state any way, see if I can get some action shots tomorrow. Ta Phil

To pigstye the cribbing you would put down two pieces paralell say 18" apart then put 2 more pieces at right angles to the 1st 2 pieces again 18" apart, then do the same for the next layer, alternatively 90 degrees for each layer, much as a bricky would build a brick pier for a house. If you put all your packing/cribbing the same way it will become unstable and fall over. Did you guys not play with wooden blocks as kids and try to build the biggest tower. If you are using railway sleepers for packing you may be putting your sleepers 4 or 5 feet apart. It all depends on what size and length your packing/cribbing is. I've attached a picky showing us installing one of our hammers, we are using railway sleepers for packing here. Note how the packing is arranged at 90 degrees between the layers. We also have steel rollers on strips of spring steel flat under the hammer on top of the sleepers to roll the hammer backwards over the anvil. The hammer will be rolled backwards using 2 men one on either side with a levering with a heel bar. Once we have moved it back we will "walk" the hammer down onto the anvil, each end a bit at a time, packing as we go, about 2" at each step.

Did I tell you I was coming Dale, I'm going to bring BEER! Oh and maybe some tools and bits of steel, but mainly beer, n a bottl of scotch if I can fit it, and the human forklift, (it'll be his 21st birthday that weekend to I seem to recall, hows that for dedication, coming to Moonys rather than have a booze up!) Cheers Phil

We get nasty little paper wasps, big hornets, red back spiders, funnel web spiders, brown snakes, and red belly black snakes in our workshop, a shot gun seems to work good with all of them even if it is a bit of overkill for some. A can of WD40 and a cigarette lighter works good for the paper wasps (kids don't try this at home, at least not without adult supervision!). Next week kids we'll discuss making golf ball guns. Bye for now. Phil

Hey Grant (Ironstein sorry for barging in) This has set me thinking. We forge a job which is a rail spiking hammer in which we punch the eye in a tool with a blob punch, one go. We use a cover plate about 1" thick on the tool to position and align the punch. We have used H13 with some success also used XK5179D, some success, spring steel, little success, EN26 some success. Normally we forge the punch to shape, an oval about 1 1/2' long x 1 1/8 wide by about 5" long, allowing a bit for grinding to final shape. The back of the punch is forged down smaller to allow clearance. We are punching through about 3 1/2 inches 4140. I normally normalise the whole punch, then take the cutting edge and about 1/2" down to a orange and drop into the quench oil. The failures we have had are the punches bending mid hole, the cutting edges spalling off, the striking end spalling, the cutting end upsetting inside the job and becoming stuck in the job. It normally takes about 5 blows to punch the eye through with the punch coming out at about 500 deg C. Any suggestions re better punch material, heat treatment, etc. What would you use. Ta Phil

Make the swage reins out of round, drill a hole in the swages just a bit (1/8"th) larger that the round, upset the very end of the round bar to the size of the drilled hole heat up your swage blocks insert the handles and using a flat ended punch caulk the edges of the hole over the upset ends and into the reins a bit, will last for years. Swages don't normally need HT, we use swages made of 1045 or 4140 for years under power hammers with no heat treatment other than normalising. Cheers Phil

Went for a trip with moony today up the coast, the partys getting closer, moony hopes to have a special toy for the boys as well. cheers Phil

I went for a road trip with Moony to look at a 1000 ton press, used up a day at least. Phil