i appreciate all the feedback including yours, mark. the rose was a first, and i decided to go with a thicker closed petal. if you have ever had a rose bush, you know that the flowers don't all look the same all of the time. sometimes they are closed. sometimes they are open. sometimes they are partially open. i am still learning this blacksmithing thing and i will be learning every day until i can't swing the hammer anymore. first rose and first try. next one will be better. i promise.