thanks for your reply! it is almost as unbelievable as the many recipies for flux, coatings, things you must do to weld...sometimes its hard to see thru the smoke....i havent made enough knives to lay claim to anything... i was aware if you dont exceed the temper temp you dont ruin it ..... i use a toaster oven that I also havent calibrated, although i will....i know if i do 1090 in it and lay it down more than 2x it warps...lol....so i made a little arrangement that holds the knife in the middle of the box edge down...i guess its close to the most even spot in the appliance...it worked... i have a hard time wanting to make one to destroy.... anyway good advice, thx again