Mikey98118

I already did that with a bong, forty some years back. Ah, misspent youth. How did I survive?

Seriously though, have you noticed what a nice job his burner does of heating a very wide area, Frosty? Looks like they might make a much easier alternative to ribbon burners for "D" forges. I do like alternatives

Actually, those are my words; but I was talking about Mikey burners, which get pretty intricate to construct in sizes smaller than 3/8". Switch to a simple linear design, and everything gets much easier (and cheaper) with smaller burners It is a mistake to assume that construction factors remain the same in burners of various sizes of different designs. You only need to consider how much of any given burner consists of repurposed parts, for that idea to go up in smoke.

"Retainerator"? Oh, I like that one

If it isn't even glowing with your forge at orange-yellow incandescence, you should have no problems with it, after all However, you now must face the really high hurdle of what kinda tricky name to call you new flame retention nozzle design

That is very good progress; it seems to be heating your forge pretty well. How far can you move the flame retention nozzle back up into the refractory, without diverting its flames? I think it may last pretty fast, otherwise.

Oh yes; back when I was still numbering the changes. I suppose we would be up to type six or seven by now, if it mattered at all... What I like to see is people coming along, and completely upsetting all the apple carts, including mine. May AFB and all his fellow travelers be forever blessed

Micro forges The starting point for Micro forges only begins at coffee-can (one gallon) size. Smaller tin cans, and two-brick forges can take the internal dimensions down as far as you want to go. But, the question is, what are they good for? The obvious answer is that they are mainly used by jewelers. However, jewelers punches are far from the only small hand tools that are easily made; but then need hardened and tempered. Miniature screw drivers and other driving tools (ex. hex wrenches) are either way over priced, or cheap imports. You probably don't want to make them from scratch, but the abillity to harden and temper those cheap imports can bring some of them up to usable quality. However, we don't swat flies with cannons. Trying to heat miniature tools in normal sized forges is equally foolish.

On tuning In reply to a recent post, Frosty gave the following advise concerning his "T" burners. "Try turning the pressure up and putting it IN the forge, it's hard to tune a T burner properly in a different place than it's intended to run. Think of it like adjusting a carburetor at sea level to run the Pike's Peak race." Hmmmm? I prefer tuning "Mikey" burners (and every other high speed burner I have played with) out in the open air. The advice given in this thread has seldom mentioned the great differences that mixture flow speed can make in various burner designs; that was a mistake. Different burner designs must be tuned individually. Frosty has mentioned that his burner was designed to be slow speed, to get the most heat transfer out of its flame, before it exits the equipment via an exhaust opening. I designed my burners to give the highest speed possible, and counted on sufficient swirl in the exhaust path to slow that high speed flame down, increasing hang time; differing paths to similar goals.

And we know that this is what is going on, because your burner's mixing tube heated up enough for bluing to appear on it's surface.

Clam shell forges, and... Jay Hayes is probably the originator of the modern oval shaped gas forge; he certainly is the first to begin selling them (about two decades before anyone else). But, I think he had already been experimenting with clam shell forges for some time, before that. It was in trying to research clam shell forges that I came across Jay's website. Clam shell forges have limited utility. If you aren't into armor, metal bowls, or Spanish style wrought iron, chances are poor that they will be of interest to you. Classic wrought iron used to be one of my hobbies, so I added a form of clam shell forge (the top) on a hot-work table. A vertical up-facing burner built into the table completed the forge; it could also be used for a brick pile forge, and to provide a very hot flame for reheating hot glass. For this to work out in the real world, its clam shell top must be conected to an adjustable height, foot operated pop-up scaffold. You will also want to employ a idler-circuit on the burner's plumbing, to make opening up that top much more comfortable. The point of all this, is to suggest the path to making practical use for way cool, but marginal, equipment. As Frosty has pointed out, universal tooling seldom works as well as dedicated tooling. But tooling that is too dedicated can be so, well..limited. So, a little mixing and matching of equipment might just limit both problems

What you're hearing isn't what I'm saying; I doubt that it is what Frosty intends either. For me, every forge design has it inbuilt limitations, and construction "factors"; I am careful not to think of them as problems, so long as I like the design. "Problems" is a category used with forge designs I dislike. I could go even further and call them "points of interest"

Interesting; without rigidizer the strips would "take a set," and should work out pretty well as a gasket, but how does rigidizer affect their mechanical properties, when used the blanket is used this way?

There are semi insulating refractoroes, which will not become a burdensome thermal mass. High alumina kiln shelves are in this category. Even simpler is to buy some Perlite from a garden supply, and mix it into hard castable refractory. Add about one-third Perlite, by volume, to two-thirds castable refractory. Well, why not use hard fireplace brick then? What is bad about hard firebrick is that it consists of clay. The amount of silica in clay--even fireclay--is way too high, because silica transmits heat seven times more readily than the other main ingredient; alumina.

Thanks, Simian. This is the kind of information people there need.

Agreed; you need an instrument, to cover this.

Good show! I don't know why more builders in the UK, mention what local fittings and parts they used to construct a burner. After all these years, you people should be able to find this information on our site, with a glance.

Unless you are using it for tempering, I foresee little use for a thermal probe. For every other task, judging temperature by forge color should suffice. Any heat treating and tempering that requires close temperature control is best done in an electric kiln. Any oven that only needs to accommodate 100 cubic inches can be run with minor electrical use, and built for little coin, except for the control circuit itself.

So why are the powers that be determined that you never switch fuel and oxygen hoses? While the oxygen hose might or might not do okay as a fuel hose, that isn't true of the fuel hose, if hooked up to a source of pure oxygen; it would likely go up in flames.

A different stepped flame retention nozzle design But what about burner designs with softer flames? Amal burners came up with a unique solution to the problem. What problem? That slide-over step nozzles don't work very well on burners with softer flames, like "T" burners and Amal burners. Instead of a spacer ring between the burner's mixing tube and the outer tube of the flame retention nozzle, Amal uses an internal tube, which has twice the mixing tube’s internal diameter for its length, with a chamfered rear edge. check out their drawing at Amal's website.

Hoses Refillable fuel cylinders are usually fitted to standard high-pressure black propane appliance hose; this is available with various connector fitting choices from hardware and appliance stores; I do not recommend it. Appliance hose is stiff (difficult to work with), seriously overpriced, and seldom comes in twenty-foot lengths. Instead, I recommend using 1/4” size “T” (multiple fuel grade) twin torch hose in standard lengths. Once you buy the hose, remove the brass guards from both of its ends, and simply pull the red fuel hose away from the green oxygen hose (save the oxygen hose). What you end up with is a highly flexible top-grade fuel hose at a reasonable price, which can be found at any local welding supply store or ordered online. Take care not to end up with oxyacetylene torch hose; it must not be used with LPG fuels. Fuel gas regulator outlet bushings: Torch hose fittings (on the red fuel hose), have left hand thread; this is meant to keep people from mounting the wrong hose on equipment. Thus, you require a special connector, called a fuel Gas regulator outlet bushing, to connect left-hand fuel hose connectors to right hand ¼” pipe thread, which is found on most regulators, needle valves, etc. These bushings come in different sizes to mate up with different hose sizes. “B” size bushings match up with ¼” torch hose. Stainless-steel braided fuel hose is a bargain priced safety item to add between the rest of your fuel hose and the last few feet near heating equipment; or for a few feet between an outdoor fuel cylinder, and a through the wall piping system (or indoor section of hose); it is sold in various finish lengths, up to twenty feet. Caution: NEVER attempt to use water hose, or air hose, to carry fuel gas. Propane will partially dissolve the hose and/or seals on water and air fittings. The first you now of it, might be when the entire hose is suddenly ablaze (I was present when this happened to someone; he was able to run outside, and shut off the feed from his propane cylinder before his shack caught fire). Do not use acetylene rated hose for any LPG (liquid petroleum gas) fuel; it is likely to fail just like water or air hose, because LPG will cause it to decompose.

And so it becomes time to consider modified "D" shapes, for ribbon burner forges. Nothing prevents us from making the top half of the forge wider However, in your case, a ribbon burner probably is something of a waste of time. Small forges use small burners. The smaller the burner the closer it comes to a ribbon burner's efficiency. So, a ribbon burner in a 100 cubic inch "D" forge isn't going to work better than two 1/4" burners. But the ribbon burner will be a lot harder to build and mount correctly in this forge size. Thanks for your input, Buzzkill; we need more of that kind of information from builders

1DaramG, Let's keep the confusion down by starting right where you are. I can't be sure without you providing a close-up of the head of your present torch, but you can probably get away with sheathing its end in a tight fitting stainless steel tube or pipe. This is what you need to make sure it survives being mounted within the forge's burner portal (the hole it is laying in at present). Properly mounting your present torch, or whatever torch or air/fuel burner you eventually choose, will increase internal temperature in that forge by about one-fifth. It looks like you employed castable refractory to line your torch with. I have made several forges and furnaces, with nothing more than hard castable refractory; it isn't the best choice, but is also far from the worst. You can work with it. What you need more than a change in liner is to finish the forge, by providing an external baffle wall of firebrick, about an inch in front of the exhaust opening. Most people choose insulating or semi-insulating firebrick, but even plain firebricks will do a marvelous job of increasing forge temperature. This movable wall allows the hot gases to exit, while bouncing radiant heat back into the forge. Next, you need to complete the refractory lining with a coat of re-missive material; there are several to choose from, but even plain kiln wash will do wonders. Why? Have you noted how rough the surfaces of your refractory is? All of the recommended coatings, including kiln wash, are SMOOTH. How well heat is reflected back from an incandescent surface depends on how small the particles that make up that surface is; this is why all these coatings rate their percentage of heat reflection as "up do." The whole point of a forge is control of the heat that a burner or torch provides, So: (A) Control the heat at its entrance (burner portal) by controlling the amount of secondary air that the flame can induce. (B) Control the heat loss through its wall, with a finish coating, so that the forge interior will super-heat, causing it to radiate more. The hotter the internal surfaces the higher the percentage of heat transferred into your work. At yellow incandescent far more of the heat transferred into your work is from radiant energy; not directly from the flame. (C) control heat loss through radiation at its exhaust, by bouncing that radiant energy back into the forge interior. You will find these little tricks doing as much for you as a better torch or burner

I cannot give very much advice on ribbon burners: fortunately, there are others here who can, and will jump on the chance to. Although they spend most short trips in Paris, Kathy and her BFF enjoy touring all of France, when they have time. Loved the photos.

So far, stepped flame retention nozzles do a much better job of controlling the flames of thigh speed air/fuel burners than tapered nozzles ever did.