dan@modernblacksmith Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 IF your posts contain curse words, those curse words WILL be replaced with x's and a note made as to the change. IF your post tried to dance around the curse word by using creative literature while retaining the same intent and or meaning, those words WILL be replaced with x's and a note made as to the change. Some few times the offending words may have been lengthly and therefore simply removed or replaced without disturbing the content of the post. I always try to place notes in the post if any edits are made. This is done quietly as not to draw attention to the post or the person posting, but to remind everyone something happened and a change was made. We recently added Moderator01 to correct any spelling errors so the post reads better. In this case, no notes are made as nothing was changed in the post, the only change being correction of spelling. There has NEVER been censorship as you suggest. IForgeIron is a family forum. It is a clean forum. IForgeIron expects you to be gentlemen and ladies and to treat others with the same respect. IForgeIron promotes blacksmithing, and learning about blacksmithing by the interaction with other knowledgable individuals, and has become a valuable resource to many. IForgeIron invites anyone to view the site, just point your browser. You may read anything posted as there are no "special" sections. Yes, we have one topic about how to improve the site that is only available to those registered, but that is expected. IF you wish to view that topic, register and your in. IForgeIron DOT-NET is the contributors site for those that have contributed Blueprints to the site. IF you wish to access that site, contribute a Blueprint and your in. So you see, there is nothing hidden, there is nothing that requires "special" handshakes, fees, dues, money of any sort, or anything other than pointing a browser, or registration to be able to view the material. IForgeIron, being an open site, understands that this will include people of all ages, including teenagers, pre-teens and very young children that are interested in blacksmithing. IForgeIron set it's standards high to make the site a comfortable site where you do not have to put up with curse words, personal attacks, and flame wars in order to learn about the craft. If in order to keep IForgeIron a clean site and a family forum, words must be replaced with x's, then they WILL be replaced. IForgeIron forum has over 5, 685 posts with only one post being deleted. That thread concerned a specific off topic question that was answered and then locked due to the nature of the material. The off topic post was let stand and allowed to be answered, even though it did not fit the forum. The deleted post came in after the decision to lock the post from additional comments was made. The old forum had many posts with only two deletions. The discussion was getting heated and a warning was issued. An individual, not involved in the original discussion, objected to the warning and posted using inappropriate language for the site. It was deleted. They made a second post using more inappropriate language and that was deleted also for the same reason - cursing.I simply want to say, I don't like it when I'm censored. I wouldn't care if my messages are deleted, but when they are changed, they aren't my comments anymore, and when a forum is set up so that I can't even remove my own censored comments, I think I'll need to find a more progressive forum to frequent. (I would expect this message will either be deleted, censored, or locked) I have reviewed your 47 posts to the IForgeIron forum and only one word from all your posts has been adjusted. That one word was adjusted to soften the description of an object so the post could fit the format of the forum. This did NOT change the content of the post in any way. As to expecting this message to be "deleted, censored or locked" I have tried to explain my actions as an administrator in great detail, and have posted it in the open for all to see. Not allowing anyone but the administrator to made deletions, keeps everying in the open. IForgeIron does NOT censor posts as you suggest. IForgeIron WILL remove curse words from any post in order to keep this a family forum. To avoid this, do not use those curse words, and do not use creative literature to dance around while keeping the same intent or meaning. But, I would not see this as a problem as you are a gentleman and treat others with the respect they deserve as gentlemen and ladies, and would protect the children that view the site from such things. Glenn - Site Admin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I have reviewed my post and the media is flat, and does not allow for everyone to read words they way they were intended. The reply could be read that Dan had used curse words in a post - he did not. I have reviewed Dan's 47 posts to the IForgeIron forum and only one word from all his posts has been adjusted. That one word was adjusted to soften the description of an object so the post could fit the format of the forum. This did NOT change the content of the post in any way. Again, Dan has NOT used any curse words in any of his posts. Dan has been a gentleman and a valued contributor to the site. This post is made so there is no misunderstandings and no shadows cast in Dan's direction. Dan, Thank you for your concern about censorship, I hope my comments answer your question. You have been a gentleman and a valued contributor to the site. Please continue to use the IForgeIron site for reference and to share your skill and expertise with others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapman1077 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Glenn, I am HAPPY to have someone "guarding the gate" and keeping out the material that is not for a "family forum". Thanks for your GOOD work !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan@modernblacksmith Posted January 22, 2006 Author Share Posted January 22, 2006 gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 We are hunting on Glenn's land, so to speak. He owns it and the animals we hunt. When he says this or that is off-limits, then we are obligated to leave certain things off limits, Glenn owns this site. We can post according to his rules or he has the right to alter or remove our post. We all agreed to that when we registered. If that agreement is no longer acceptable, you have the right to resign your membership here and post somewhere else. This is not an issue of censorship or free speech, it is an issue of ownership and the right to maintain our property as we so choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan@modernblacksmith Posted January 22, 2006 Author Share Posted January 22, 2006 gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Your question has already been answered - twice. This is a reasonable queston as the request arises from time to time. This is a family forum and I have intentionally edited the original post and redirected the conversation The question WAS reasonable and deserves an answer. It just needed the wording adjusted to fit the forum. This original question came from outside the United States. Different cultures have different standards and I felt it could be delt with and answered from the prospective in the United States. The original post was modified to fit the forum with no objections. There was even a thank you for the answers provided. You have indicated that you do not wish any modifications to be made to your post. You will notice that your spelling has NOT been corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan@modernblacksmith Posted January 22, 2006 Author Share Posted January 22, 2006 gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan B Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Glenn, I have been a member here since its inception. In the beginning I supported and stood behind the values you have and the standards that you strive to hold this site up to. I just wanted to publicly state that I still do. This is a wonderful place where I feel at ease in sending ladies and even young people that are simply seeking information on blacksmithing, laughing and sometimes lessons on life in general. I am now and will remain steadfast in standing side by side with you in your efforts to keep this site clean and free from vulgarity and slanderous statements. People are free to come and go but while here they should be courteous and choose the wording of their post carefully as this forum is free and open to the public. If people find this unacceptable they are free to move on. Thank you for your diligance in the advancement of smithing and its knowledge through this site. Your friend, Alan B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Amen...H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacksmithtech Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 blacksmithtech, I feel I must amend your post. Dan (and others) are welcome to post as long as it is within the high standards and guidelines set for the site. He has expressed his desire that his posts are not to be altered in any way, and that is fine as long as he follows the site guidelines. This is true for Dan and every other registered member and is not something new. Dan is a valued contributor with 47 posts already to his credit. He is a gentleman and as such, I would expect him to respect the guidelines of the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J W Bennett Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 To All, I think of this sight like the kitchen table at home, I started out like a child sitting at the kitchen table listening to the elders. As time goes on I have tried too add to the conversation and ask for opinions and guidance. As I grow I offer some of my own. I have a lot to learn and a little to offer But I enjoy sitting at this kitchen table and I feel comfortable here. I am not a religous man nor an educated one.... But when I am company at another mans table I try too watch my manners as I share in the conversation. That doen't mean I can't state my opionion it just means I do it in the manner acceptable to the house that I am in. I feel like I belong here, If that should ever change I am free to look for knowledge and fellowship elsewhere. Thank you for a spot at the table and I hope my plate never gets broken. JWB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I can't help it. I get confused easily. Did he quit because the host DIDN'T change what he DIDN'T say? Glenn. You have done a good thing here. You appear to be of fine character and I am honored to be in your company. Thank you. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan@modernblacksmith Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 "You will notice that your spelling has NOT been corrected" [Glenn] It appears you are mocking me....I don't appreciate that, see ya... [Dan] Dan, I am sorry that you took my comment the wrong way. In the course of reviewing the posts on the forum, I opened your post and started to change the spelling - then stopped and made no modifications to your post, as you requested. The Moderator did the same thing, opened your post to correct the spelling, stopped, and contacted me and ask for directions in the matter. I told them to leave it alone, as you requested. This correction of spelling is something that is done when needed without any thought as to it being caused by fat fingers, or oversight in proof reading, or a best effort being made because of not being sure how to spell a particular word. It does not matter as spelling correction done to make the post look better and to be more easily read. I would not have brought it to your attention except you seemed adamant about no modifications being made to your posts, and we were trying to do just that. It was my way to show you we were following your instructions, with no ill will or offense intended, as two of us were within a keystroke of correcting the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meco3hp Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Hello, I know how we can "fix" this problem. Lets just move on! We all know where Glenn stands on this and we know where Dan stands on this, and I don't expect everybody to agree 100% on everything all the time. The only two people that have the right to remove that thread is the original author and Glenn. That is a private matter between those two and those two only. I personally don't want Dan to leave the membership, or anybody else unless they make the choice themselves. After all, it is a free country (within reason). If they decide to leave and then decide to return later, I'd welcome them with a firm hand shake and a open door. I say if the majority say leave the post, then so be it. I've had one of my posts edited that I put a questionable word in, but I didn't get upset about it because it wasn't worth the effort! Now if somebody said that I couldn't post about my right to fly the American flag, then I'd say we have a problem, and that type of censorship should be fought. The thread was posted and as soon as Glenn found it he tried to redirect it and remind everybody to post with caution from then on. The only thing that was changed in your post, as far as I know, Dan, was one 3 letter word. Now I've never met you Dan, and I don't know what your family situation is, but when my 11 and 14year old nephews are with me or looking over my sholders at this very site, and they see a reference to that ""type" of bed" you referred to, I can guarantee you when they ask, "Whats that?" I'm not going to be too impressed! You also need to remember there is a number of folks here that teach BSing to 4Hers and home schooled children. How do you think that looks to their folks? But as edited as so edited now, it fits in a level that is generally exceptable to the general pubic, you general opinion is still getting across to everybody and I won't have to explain, in detail, that that "type" of bed is for when my nephews read the forum along with me. There are a few other ways that you could have posted about that "type" of bed, why not next time, say to myself, "Am I going to be "edited" if I say it that way?" And if you think even remotely that you might be edited, either change your wording or ask around by PM and see if anybody has a good idea of how to word it so the possibility of a edit is minumized. Also, I've been attacked verbally on this site by a "guest" and as soon as Glenn saw it, he got it taken care of. If the "guest" would have worded it in a maner of a question rather than a attack, I would of gladly answered it. I hope everybody sticks with the site and everybody will decide to "just move on". We know where everybody stands on this and as a civilized group of people, we can come to a understanding and have respect for each others decisions and thoughts. Otherwise we're just splitting hairs or making a mountain out of a molehill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primtechsmith Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Censorship is a harsh ideal for a public forum. If Glenn wanted to become the "censor", as the definition calls for, then he would have completely deleted the post from the forum. But, in doing the right thing he has gained the wrong reaction from the author. Glenn gave Dan, like he has given many others, the benefit of the doubt on expressing his/her opinion by deflecting his vernacular to more suitable words. Thank you for that. I can only hope Glenn's astute attention to detail, and passion for this site will potentially fix a possible problem in any of my posts here, now, or in days/years to come. Was this a case of censorship? No. Only a case of someone doing the right thing.... Thank you Glenn for this site, your diligence for a higher standard, and all of your hard work! Proud patron of iforgeiron.com Peyton Anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 There is one last piece of business to attend to. Dan Posted: 22 Jan 2006 07:06 pm I would prefer that you would delete all of my messages within that thread or remove the thread alltogether than have an edited post that I can't even remove on my own. Dan Posted: 23 Jan 2006 04:24 pm I haven't gone anywhere yet.....but until the edited post that started all this is deleted I won't leave another... There seems to be two requests here: Jan 22 to remove Dan's post where one word was deleted and a modification made to soften the words but keeping the intent of the post intact. Jan 23 where it could be a request to again remove the same post - or to remove the original post that was not posted by Dan. I will continue this under the thinking that it is a request by Dan to again remove Dan's post in which one word was deleted and a modification made to soften the words but keeping the intent of the post. I have sought the counsel of others in this matter and after considerable thought will leave the post to stand, as modified for the following reasons: * One word was deleted and a modification made to soften the words but keeping the intent of the post intact. * There has been a high amount of traffic generated by this discussion, some 750 views in 3 days. To remove the post would be to remove critical information that started the discussion and leave viewers without all the facts needed to form an opinion. Those viewers are most certainly forming their own opinions concerning the guidelines of the site, and how those guidelines are being applied. * To remove the post would be to remove critical information from any future viewers and leave those viewers without all the facts. This entire discussion on censorship has been presented to the public, for everyone to read. The content should not be altered at this point by removing any of the critical information from view. The entire process needs to be present to show how the IForgeIron site handles a problem, how the site guidelines are applied, and the efforts needed to keep IForgeIron a family forum, a clean site, and a comfortable site for all to enjoy. The post will not be deleted for the reasons above. Glenn - Site Admin Thank you for your time and your concerns. Let's move on. There are lots of blacksmithing subjects to discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan@modernblacksmith Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 "To remove the post would be to remove critical information that started the discussion and leave viewers without all the facts needed to form an opinion." when something is censored who is getting all the facts? gone, as are all my previous posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 To quote dan -"Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but, unlike charity, it should end there." Right on Dan, but knowing the guide lines of the forum. WHY DIDN'T YOU CENSOR IT YOURSELF AT HOME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Dan has chosen to delete the content of his posts on this subject and replace that material with the word "gone". None of the material he deleted has been modified to my knowledge (other than maybe the spelling). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primtechsmith Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Jr....well put my friend! Sometimes the worst taste is that of our own words.... Peyton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Well Dan has withdrawn, I am sure gonna miss his hilarious posts over such an insignificant thing. In a way it was better than watching old time cartoons, I laughed so hard I had tears flowing several times. Kinda reminded me of old time radio when I was a kid. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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