Designing a bamboo Forge

[DarkMamba]

I am planning to make a small scale forge using bamboo as fuel, the reason why iam keeping it small is because i am kinda broke, and also to better keep in the heat, thus making it more fuel efficient,hopefully.

i need any sort of sugestion or advice in making this said forge,as i am merely a beginer in forging

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome from the Ozark Mountains.

It may help with knowing where in the world you are located and what type of forge you are planning on building. I think the Japanese knife/sword makers do use some bamboo but turn it into charcoal for the forge.

I have never used bamboo but have burned a lot of it, when I took out a large stand of it in our yard. I can tell you unless it is split it will pop rather loudly and throw sparks quite a ways.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[DarkMamba]

As of now, i don't think i know how to turn bamboo or any wood into charcoal,from what i searched, it is said i would need a kiln, wich i don't really have the budget to buy/make,moreover turning the bamboo into charcoal would need more fuel for the kiln, wich is exactly what i am trying to avoid.

but other than that, thank you for your advice and input on this, it really helped.

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard, glad to have you.

Do you have access to steel drums, even a steel bucket will work though on a really small scale. If you can get a 55gl drum with a clamp on lid it's pretty straight forward. cut the bamboo into short lengths and split it. You don't have to split it in two pieces, just make sure none of the segments is sealed so cracking the length will work to let steam pressure escape safely. Pack the drum tightly and clamp the lid on. Screw a pipe elbow into the bung in the lid with a nipple that extends past the end of the drum. Lay it on it's side with the elbow on the bottom. 

It will need either a trench that passes full length under the drum or rocks, bricks, something to get the drum off the ground. Pack more bamboo under the drum and light it on fire and keep feeding it until the smoke coming out of the vent pipe in the end catches fire. The jet of burning gasses coming from the bamboo (or wood) will be hot enough to keep the process working.

When the flame jet stops plug the pipe with fiberglass insulation or lower it into sand to block oxygen from getting in but do NOT seal it air tight or the drum will collapse as it cools. Let the drum cool until you can lay your hand on it and not feel heat, not even very warm. If you open it and there are any coals still burning it will light it all on fire quickly and you'll lose the charcoal.

There are other ways to make charcoal in a steel drum but the one above is one I've helped with myself. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[DarkMamba]

Thank you Mr Frosty, sadly i do not have such easy access to steel drums, in fact its quite expensive for me,even if it is a used/old steel barrel.

as for a steel bucket, its a liittle bit more affordable, although i don't know what i should use as the lid and what to clamp it with,i will surely take your input into account when i manage to find the right lid and clampers for it.

Thank your very much.

[JHCC]

Bamboo is going to behave basically the same as wood, although its thin cross section is going to mean you're going to be burning through quite a lot of it. Because both wood and bamboo only get hot enough to forge metal once they've burned down to coals, you have two basic options. One would be a very deep V-shaped forge, where you add the fuel on top, and it settles into a concentrated hot spot at the bottom as it burns down (Google "Whitlock forge" for a commercially made example). The other would be to make a regular JABOD forge (Just A Box Of Dirt) and fuel it with the coals from a separate fire pit, where you do the initial burn-down of the bamboo. There's a good discussion of both these options on this thread:

12 hours ago, Irondragon Forge ClayWorks said:

I think the Japanese knife/sword makers do use some bamboo but turn it into charcoal for the forge.

My understanding is that Japanese bladesmiths generally use softwood charcoal. However, bamboo-based charcoal is often used by metalworkers who need their fire to be as impurity-free as possible, such as silversmiths. (This is one reason that willow-based charcoal was the preferred fuel for European and early American silversmiths, in addition to how readily willow adapts to coppicing and thus ensuring a constant supply of raw material.) Bamboo-based charcoal is also used for burning incense, as it imparts no additional odors of its own.

[Latticino]

More importantly it might be worth investigating what you want to use the forge for to see if there are more economical alternatives, or if the whole undertaking is impractical.  For example if you are only going to bend or twist 3/8" rod, you can likely do it cold with the right leverage.  If you plan to make knives, the fuel cost is only a small fraction of what can be required for abrasives to finish the work. 

Certainly not discouraging you from getting into smithing, but if sourcing a 55 gallon drum is going to break the bank, forging may not be a reasonable path.  I see preowned, reconditioned drums around here for around $20 -$30.

[Frosty]

Mr. Mamba. Please put your general location in the header, it makes a huge difference in what is available and what members of Iforge can help you.

You get the wood burning until it's visibly largely coals then turn it upside down on soft dirt to smother the flames. The direct method is less efficient than the indirect "retort" method I described above but it works. Heck you can shovel coals out of a campfire and extinguish them in water. Once dried out and it's good fuel. But you'll be lucky to get 20% return on production.

Frosty The Lucky.

[DarkMamba]

ah, i should have thought about that, my bad, i live in indonesia, thats why everything that seems cheap to some is so expensive for me.

but i have found a cheap 20 liters iron trashcan that only costs 35k idr, or around 2 us dollar, wich is an affordable price for me.,its 10 times cheaper and 10 times smaller so its reasonable in a way.

also Mr. Frosty, may i ask where to put the exhaust? should i put it on top or underneath?

2 hours ago, JHCC said:

Bamboo is going to behave basically the same as wood, although its thin cross section is going to mean you're going to be burning through quite a lot of it. Because both wood and bamboo only get hot enough to forge metal once they've burned down to coals, you have two basic options. One would be a very deep V-shaped forge, where you add the fuel on top, and it settles into a concentrated hot spot at the bottom as it burns down (Google "Whitlock forge" for a commercially made example). The other would be to make a regular JABOD forge (Just A Box Of Dirt) and fuel it with the coals from a separate fire pit, where you do the initial burn-down of the bamboo. There's a good discussion of both these options on this thread:

My understanding is that Japanese bladesmiths generally use softwood charcoal. However, bamboo-based charcoal is often used by metalworkers who need their fire to be as impurity-free as possible, such as silversmiths. (This is one reason that willow-based charcoal was the preferred fuel for European and early American silversmiths, in addition to how readily willow adapts to coppicing and thus ensuring a constant supply of raw material.) Bamboo-based charcoal is also used for burning incense, as it imparts no additional odors of its own.

and thank you too Mr. JHCC, i will surelly account for this when designing the forge

[Frosty]

The suggestion is to put your location in the header, telling us once in a post won't stick in our memories once we open another one. It is not a rule but it really helps. Much maybe most questions and good suggestions can be very location specific.

The trashcan might work UNLESS IT IS GALVANIZED!  Galvanizing is zinc plating and burning zinc emits zinc oxide smoke which is toxic and does serious lung damage as your body tries to dissolve and expel it. One of our automatic warnings is, NEVER PUT GALVY IN A FIRE!! A good saying to that point is, "In Rust We Trust." I believe there is even a T shirt available in the Iforge store though I doubt in your language. 

If there is no pipe flange on the can don't worry about it, if it came with a lid that slides over the top it will do nicely. 

So, if you can safely burn in the trash can you found you'll use the "Semi Direct" method. Cut and pack your bamboo in the can, in one direction, vertically provides the best passages for escaping water, alcohols, etc. during pyrolization. (Converting to charcoal) Don't stuff it in TIGHT but don't leave it leaning on one side or spread out. I'd be really tempted to leaving one or two pieces of bamboo in tact with the membranes punched out so it makes hollow tubes. Set one end on the bottom of the can then lift it a LITTLE bit, 20mm would be more than enough. With a couple (2-3, 10-15mm.) small holes in the side of the can at the bottom it will get plenty of air.

Sooo, once full drop some burning coals down the bamboo tube and place the lid on the can with one side just off so smoke can escape. When it stops visibly smoking put the lid on tight and cover the air holes at the bottom with sand or dirt and leave it till it's cooled.

You can leave the lid off completely until it stops smoking and then cover it but you will lose more fuel (bamboo) and your recovery (charcoal at the end of the process) will be lower. 

For an indirect retort like I described first you'll be doing well to get IIRC around 40% by volume recovery. (Someone who KNOWS the recovery ratios please jump in now!) It will weigh hardly anything compared to the wood you start with but all that is left is relatively pure carbon.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

This thread will give you a good idea on how to make charcoal, keeping in mind you can adapt what you have to make it work.

"Charcoal," she retorted - Solid Fuels: Coal, Coke, Charcoal, Wood, etc - I Forge Iron

 

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[George N. M.]

DM, since you are starting smithing on, as we Americans would say, a "shoestring budget", you may want to look at how smiths operated for thousands of years before the invention of modern smithing tools and techniques.  And look up videos of how smiths today operate in third world countries in Africa and Asia.  The traditional techniques and the modern "low tech" tools and processes are pretty basic and inexpensive.  And these smith did/do some very impressive work.  In your part of the world look at the kris swords and knives made in Indonesia and the Philippines.

All you need is a fire to get metal hot, something to pound on (anvil), a pounder (hammer), a grabber (tongs/pliers/visegrips, etc.), and a hunk of metal to get hot and pound on.

Also, great blades were made before the advent of modern abrasives and belt grinders.  Look up "draw filing" to get a very nice finish by hand.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[DarkMamba]

well, the product is advertized as a trash burner so i don't think its galvanized

Thank you again for the explanation Mr Frosty, and thank you iron dragon forge and Mr George N. M.
the ammount and quality of advice i am getting is trully incredible, thank you everyone.

[George N. M.]

One question:  How available/expensive is charcoal (NOT briquettes) in Indonesia?  I know it is a common cooking and heating fuel in many parts of the world.  You will have to decide if the expense and time involved in making your own charcoal fuel is worth it versus buying a bag whenever you need it.

GNM

PS One of the attractions of blacksmithing is that it can be very low tech (not much different than the process in 1000-500 BC) or it can be pretty high tech (induction forges, power hammers, fancy heat treating ovens, etc.).  And it is all "real" blacksmithing.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[BillyBones]

If you have the space you do not need a barrel or any kind of container. Charcoal used to be made by piling wood up then covering it with wet dirt, not quite mud but very wet. IIRC pile up the wood, then a layer of dried leaves, then mound it all in wet dirt. Leave 4 air holes in the bottom, light the fire through the holes. When it is going good seal up the holes. again if i recall correctly i do not think you even need a vent hole in the top after it starts burning good. Next morning crack it open and you have charcoal. 

[DarkMamba]

8 hours ago, George N. M. said:

One question:  How available/expensive is charcoal (NOT briquettes) in Indonesia?  I know it is a common cooking and heating fuel in many parts of the world.  You will have to decide if the expense and time involved in making your own charcoal fuel is worth it versus buying a bag whenever you need it.

GNM

PS One of the attractions of blacksmithing is that it can be very low tech (not much different than the process in 1000-500 BC) or it can be pretty high tech (induction forges, power hammers, fancy heat treating ovens, etc.).  And it is all "real" blacksmithing.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

its affordabble, 5000 idr per kilos,but it runs out so fast so i am not too keen on it

[Frosty]

The burn can you found sounds like a good choice, it should last longer than a 55gl. drum. You might have to modify it for charcoal production though.

Not to minimize the IDR nor ignore the difference in cost of living but I had to look at the exchange rate and at todays exchange a kilo of charcoal would cost approx $0.31 usd. Which is significantly less than my cost. The cheapest I could find locally is $1.02usd/kilo.

The charcoaling method Billy describes above is how it's been made for thousands of years but instead of wet earth I believe sod was the common cover for the mound. Coaling rings are common archeological artefacts and some were dedicated masonry structures like the bee hive coaling kilns I described above. 

Coaling mounds like Billy described were usually around 10m in dia and up to 10+ tall. If covered in sod they didn't need a smoke hole. Tending the fire in one this size occasionally killed the collier as the mound and pyrolizing wood needs to be "settled" in the mound to work properly. The collier would jump up and down on top of the mound to settle the contents and every now and then one broke through and fell into the mound of burning wood. The now larger opening would fan the flames and many couldn't escape. This type and scale of coaling was a profession in the day and still is in parts of the world today. 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[BillyBones]

Just doing a youtube search on "making charcoal" came up with dozens of videos making charcoal the primitive way. From huge mounds like Frosty mentions to much smaller scale about the size of an average camp fire, maybe 3 feet tall.