BoardMoreThanUsual Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Hi again all, recently i picked up this make shift forge off FB. when i first saw it i was going to pass on it but figured for $40 bucks even if i cant use it I could used the metal for something. the guy i got it from was a hobbiest knifemaker and said he jut filled it with coal and used it that way. i am hoping to improve on that plan but looking for some ideas to make it more functional, reliable and give me a better feel for a coal forge before i spend real amounts of money on a proper forge. my 1st thought was just fill it with dirt make a "bowl" form and then cover it with refractory cement at about 1/2 way the depth of the sides thus leaving room for coal around the sides to feed the fire. there is a sheetmetal "hood" that came with it that covers the whole thing but unsure if that is needed or should be used as atm it will be used out side as always in my driveway. the blower that came with it is shown as well plan on just hooking it up to a dimmer switch if it works that way unsure at the moment. as always any and all advice/input is wanted and appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 An improved ash dump and side sucker hood would be the only changes I would make to this initially. Eventually you might want to reform the refractory casting around the bottom air outlet or put in a metal firepot to help in localizing your fireball (I have even used hard firebrick for this, but it should work as shown for general forging duties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I agree with everything Latticino says, with the addition that I suspect that grill might burn out pretty quickly if you're making larger fires for heavy forgings. Something heavier (perhaps welded up from 1/2" or larger round bar) might work better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 It looks like that could make a really good British style side blast forge with a little work… Keep it fun, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoardMoreThanUsual Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 Thanks for the replies. Been trying to read forums here on the clay sand mix.., so many broken links, but i think i found what i need. I will take advice and use some round bar for the grate. Life would be easier if i could weld but for now i ll jst have to make do with what i can bolt together. If i get it fuctional ill post pics and steps i used. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 A single inch of 2pts clay to 1pt. sand give or take with just enough moisture you can ram it hard with a mallet. Do NOT make mud or it will shrink check and turn into a mess when it dries. A better air grate is easy when you get a fire going in it. A vise and some 1/2" round hot rolled, using a hack saw cut lengths about 2 1/2x as long as the top of your tuyere pipe, heat and bend almost closed. Make several and lay them one let between the next over the tuyere and you have a fast easy to replace air grate. Pack the ends outside your duck's nest in the clay liner and you're ready to go to town. Forget about refractory cement, hard rammed clayey sand works very well and better yet, you can change it as you like when you like. Lose the screw cap ash dump and replace it with an exhaust cap, the kind that cover semi exhaust stacks to keep rain out but open when the engine is running. The counter weight will keep it closed and seal the ash dump reasonably well and you can reach under with tongs or hammer and dump the ash by lifting the counter weight. This works a charm I've been doing it for a long time. A side draft hood will work WAY better than one that covers the entire forge. Huge hoods don't develop enough draft to draw, it's spread out over too much area. A simple side draft will all but suck the tongs out of your hands. One last thing, do NOT put a rheostat on that motor! Not until you know for sure it won't burn it up. I can never remember what type requires electronic cycle limiter type speed control but a rheostat burns them up quickly. Heck I'm sure someone here with a good memory knows what I mean and will fill in for us. That is a sweet deal for $40, you done good, REAL GOOD. Go forth and abuse HOT steel! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoardMoreThanUsual Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 Just got back from the stores and got natural clay cat litter 50lbs , 50lbs all purpose sand tractor exhaust cap along a regular switch and box. This should keep me busy for a while ill post progress or questions as i go. Thanks again all. Side draft hood will come in time want to get this forge fuctional 1st and see if i can manage working in a solid fuel forge before i go deeper. I always have my little propane forge to fall back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Good, now all you need is a way to control the air flow. There are two mechanical options. a dump gate on the output side, it just blocks the duct to the forge while opening a waste gate. This can be as simple as mounting the blower on a pivot and moving it so it isn't aimed in the duct to the forge. Yes? The other is a gate that covers the blower's intake which doesn't put the motor in danger of overheating. Closing off the intake air means the motor carries less load, moving less air so it doesn't generate as much heat. Make sense? It really does, HONEST. A side draft hood is as easy as a steel bucket I like 5 gal. paint type cans open side down on your forge table with an opening cut in the side facing the fire. Put a stack on it and you have a very functional side draft forge hood. No the stack doesn't need anything like an air tight connection to the bucket, get it close and the stack can just sit on it. Once warm air starts making draft any leaks will be room air going up the stack, smoke would literally have to move up wind to leak into the room. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoardMoreThanUsual Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 i am in the process of grinding up the cat litter to make it less course. how fine should/does it need to be. i am using a 25 lb round of stainless rolling and crushing on a steel plate. is this even necessary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Why didn't you just buy a sack of fire clay? Any masonry supply carries it and probably other types including bentonite. Bentonite is weird stuff, it'll work but it has a "personality" unlike most any other clay on the planet. Were I to have to pulverize kitty litter I'd make a tumbler, 4 casters, say old shopping carts upside down back to back. A small motor and an old barrel (don't make me TELL you it needs a clamp on lid!). Mount the motor on a hinge board under the drum/barrel which rides on the casters. One simple lifting lug, pop riveted in the barrel, 1" angle iron is plenty. Loop a belt over the drum and through a small pully on the motor. Rope will do fine, there won't be much load, the weight of the motor on the hinge board will tension the pully. Now toss the kitty litter in along with some heavy crushy things, large bearing balls are traditional but a length of chain, short pieces of steel rod, nuts, bolts, smooth rocks, etc. will work just fine. As the barrel turns the lifting lug will pass under the load (kitty litter and crusher thingies) and up the side until it spills off the lug. No you don't want it lifting it very high it just needs to stir the load with a LITTLE bit of fall so the load turns over a little every pass. It will pulverize and powder any friable you put in it. If you want to polish rocks, put enough in it doesn't fall with a polishing compound call "rock or lapidary shops" and soapy water. There needs to be enough in the barrel it just gets stirred. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoardMoreThanUsual Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 fire clay was not available from the big box stores around me and as i saw on you tube cat litter was a suitable substitute. at any rate that part done now its wait and dry time. i have no idea if it will work or if it is good enough i shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 You made mud anyway.<sigh> I hope it dries in a reasonable length of time without shrink checking too badly. ON the other hand bentonite is one weird clay, you might be able to just fire without drying completely. Before it dries anymore take a butter knife and score the clay so it will shrink check where you want it to. I'd maybe score it corner to corner right across the hole for the fire pot, then again center to sides, score 8 sections. That way when it shrinks drying out the checking (shrink cracks) will mostly form in the score marks. They don't need to be deep, you aren't cutting it but about 1/4" should do. Controlling shrink checking is why they used to score concrete slabs after floating them. Modern concrete is largely self reinforcing so it doesn't check easily, fibrous aggregate is the deal now. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoardMoreThanUsual Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 It really wasnt wet at all squeezed it, it clumped it didnt ooze between fingers. I actually was afraid it was to dry. There was no moisture visable . I tamped it with a rubber mallet. I did put score marks in it after the pictures were taken. If it does crack i have plenty of materials to try again. Ill be working on it again tomorrow ill post pictures again of the liner and let you all be the judge if i should re do it. Ill be working on the fan and such and some type of tong holder. Thanks again Ill go down to garage and take a pic now and add it here from the puter so i can shrinkbthe file first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Okay, I misread the looks. You don't want it scored that heavily nor quite so many lines. If what you're holding in your hand it could be a LITTLE wetter. Looking good let us know how it works for you. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoardMoreThanUsual Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 Added a intake "gate" to the blower along with a switch this morning. Again this is just to see if i cant forge with solid fuel this by no means is intended to be a permanent set up. the intake "gate" is functional all the way open blows paper out of the "pot" all the way closed it barely dances the paper. the hood is next i am going to try and make something out of the old hood parts and what ever else i have stashed in my garage. as i will be pulling this in and out og the garage for use i need to make it removable and then secure when in use this should be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Looks like you have everything in hand, good job. Making the forge portable is easy. Pick up 4 of the locking swivel casters from just about any big box store like HF or Lowe's and mount them to the legs. When I was trying to decide how to make our 2X72 belt grinder portable, I was thinking about doing that but wasn't sure it would work. I said something like it would be temporary and to quote Thomas Powers answer " There is nothing more permanent than a temporary solution" and he was right 5-6 years on and it is working just fine. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoardMoreThanUsual Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 And wha-la i got her fired up did not have much time to play was almost time to start the grill for the steaks for dinner so will make the needed tools tomorrow the next day i dont know. i am pretty sure the hood is undersized but its what would fit in the forge probable better to do with out .. to be determined 1st impression a lot harder to get started than my propane forge but once up and going man its hot. i kept forgetting to turn off the blower when going to the anvil that i am sure will come with time. i ll watch some more coal forge videos on you tube but most just skip tru the fire and go right to the hammering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 I suggest you move your blower so you can adjust the choke plate without having to walk around the forge. Foot pedal switches work well for not forgetting to shut down the blower when you step away from the forge. The downside being you can't leave something heating while you go get a tool, component, etc. Looking good, especially for a first fire, CONGRATS! Feeling board now? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoardMoreThanUsual Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 Yeah i must admit i didnt put much thought into the layout of controls and such basically put everything where the previous owner had them not to mention i was exceited to get her fired up. If i move the blower to the right side of forge then i can move the switch to that side as well putting it into my line of sight. The previous owner had an extention cord with a slide dimmer on it that he kept close by. I really appreciate everyones input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Looks very good to me. Most of the time minor adjustments are the norm. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoardMoreThanUsual Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 hi Again, I moved the blower and switch to the side and it makes it much easier to control and remember to turn it off. i can not believe how much hotter it is than my little mr volcano propane forge. i burnt the tip off many a taper today i am sure ill get the hang of it eventually. i am definitely enjoying the coal forging process and looking forward to getting a proper set up. made some small forge tools today have yet to "finish" them but all the forging done on them poker rake and water can holder ill post pics of them on my other thread ill leave this one to the forge as to stay on topic. the hood seems to work ,poorly but draws, not to worried about that as i will be upgrading that as well when i upsize to a more proper forge. For now my main concern is the small size of my "firepot" it seems to get blocked easily and requires constant attention thus why i made the forge tools 1st. but for what it is i am happy and gives me a good 1st taste of coal forging. thank you all again for everyones input / suggestions you all did not let me down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Congratulations! For your next modification drill a hole in the side of the box about 1 3/4" dia. about where the blower is now. Then extend a length of black iron pipe with a reducer and a 1" x 3" nipple on the end to just short of the center of the box's cut out. Scoop out a trench from this side to the other side with the pipe nipple an inch or two off the bottom Make up a dump gate type valve for the other end of the pipe and connect the blower. You'll be able to build grand fires then though you WILL still need to learn fire control. Hmmmm, maybe figure fire control out in your current forge before making another. . . Yeah, that's the ticket! As for not being able to build a large enough fire now, you CAN move your work around in what fire there is to heat larger areas. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoardMoreThanUsual Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 Ha, yeah fire control... thats the next mission. I prolly wont be modifing this forge again i will just learn on it. I have ideas for the next one but will save that for down the line, let me get used to this one so can can not melt thinner material in 30 seconds. Not so much worried about bigger more worried about firepot maintanece, and that i am afraid is something i just have to work at. If i can keep it clean and full of fuel the fire itself is plenty big enough for what i need at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Try building shallower fires, sure they'll oxidize your stock more quickly but it'll give you a chance to learn to read the fire and tell when your stock is hot or beginning to burn. A deep fire tends to obscure the signs under the pile and takes more practice. See, I didn't suggest you take the thin stock out in LESS than 30 seconds. Eh? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoardMoreThanUsual Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 Yes gettting the feel for time, ill learn. Was only the 1st full day of actually working in the fire. Did ok with 3/8 or better stock but not so much in 1/4 for some s hooks to hang the tools off the forge. Could turn my back for a minute with little propane not so much with this. Its more interactive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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