John B Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 You may have difficulty locating tallow, I can point you in the right direction for that as the guild had to purchase an amount when we were aking repouse pitch blocks, and we still have some left. If its mild steel I would just water or oil quench, it will not make much difference to the finished article, if it a carbon steel , it should be appreciably harder, then you will have to consider further treatment, try a sample piece first rather than the finished article. I like tallow for cooling hot cut tools as it suits the material I use to make them, JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethersin Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 Okay, since it'll be doable in a water quench i'll do it that way. Also in my book it say's use a "clean fire" and get the metal to a "cherry red" sort of colour. Or would i need a higher temperature to quench in water? Also repeat quenching does this make the blade harder again, to an extent, or first quench is all it need's? And another question, best time for sharpening the blade? im cleaning it up at the moment, and am making the edge more blade-like, should i fully sharpen it now.. or wait till it's been hardened? Cheer's guy's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 It depends on the material, and we don't know for certain what it is. Clean fire or not, make sure metal is clean (wire brush off scale) before quenching Cherry red, until you have had some experience in assessing this colour (many shades and types of cherries) stick with the non magnetic idea, bright red and above critical range. Single quench and test, swirl the hot blade around in the water when cooling then test with a file, if it is hard, the file will skid, if not it will file, if it files the material may not be a hardening type steel, if it is hard you may want to temper it to remove brittleness and the possibility of breakage Final sharpening is best done after heat treatment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethersin Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 Right on, i see thank's, just a few questions on it.. When you say skid, you mean just sort of slide across the top and not do anything to the blade? And is this under a decent amount of pressure or just a light "scrape". Cheer's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Light pressure, smooth(ish) file, and it will cut (which you will feel, and particles (filings) will come off) or it will slide (skid) without marking the surface, indicating the surface is hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethersin Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 (edited) Ah i see thank's. Well it' currently sharp enough to peel an apple/my finger.. that was an accident, (dropped my ciggerette on to a wool top and went to grab it with the knife through my finger..) Well here is a picture of so far, it's not been fully cleaned.. the blade is quite rough, and i cant de-mark it with a hammer i just keep adding more.. (hopefully i'll be able to get rid of hammer marks soon, or stop putting them in at least) Im going to wrap the handle with leather and probably make a leather scabbard type thing for it. It's going to be a general fishing/gutting knife for fishing. Also the blade is about 6-7 inch's long can't find a ruler in this house grr. Cheer's Edited October 27, 2008 by Ethersin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethersin Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 So I'm thinking of adding a hood, to my forge over the next couple of day's so i don't die !It can have alot of nasty effects such as: Burning the skin, eyes, nose, mouth and lungs. In a concentration of 10 to 50 parts per million for 5 to 15 minutes. It can also give you a headache, general discomfort and anxiety. People with lung, heart or astma, are more likely to suffer effects. Repeated moderate exposure can cause imflamation of the respiratory tract, wheezing and lung damage. Also in animal tests it has proved to be harmful to the reproductive systems, causing changes in the newborns development. This is from the site NPI: Sulfur dioxide fact sheet Now I know there isn't a great deal of sulfur dioxide in coal.. but still it's a very prolonged time that i am at the forge, and i currenty don't have a hood... Along with S02 there is also C02 and probably C0 (carbon monoxide - which is toxic - comes from incomplete combustion aka general burning). So it's not something good to sit there and breath in.. I don't yet have a hood and was wandering if you think my idea for a hood is any good. Basicly i am thinking of a bbq lid with a hole cut in the top that will fit a 4' to 5' tube about 6"+ coming out of it ( nice snug fit.) then i will lower this nice and low next to the fire, will a general bbq lid take the heat enough? Thank's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Rule # (not sure, but it is toward the top) You can smoke, but you don't heave to inhale. Nothing wrong with standing up wind of the forge so you do not have to deal with breathing smoke. Get a whole house furnace fan, or other strong fan, and place it near and below the forge table blowing up. This will act as a chimney pulling the smoke into the air stream and pushing it up and out of your way. The smoke hood is good but side draft hoods are better. This is Jayco's new way to remove smoke. Also look at BP1048 Side Draft Chimney by Uri Hofi and other side draft hoods. The Supercharged 55 Forge is another hood that may work for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethersin Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 Ah i see that's good! Currently it's a bit limiting since im outside anyway, and have to keep boards up around me to stop the fire being blown away by the wind around my house, but soon i'll have an indoor forge and can sort something out like this properly at the moment i just want somewhere for the smoke to go up on it's own so im less likely to die. It's okay when the wind is with me, but when the wind is against me it's blindingly horrible. Cheer's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Hi Ethersin, If you're looking for a good manual it's hard to beat this: Amazon.co.uk: The Blacksmith 's craft: An introdution to smithing for apprentices and craftsmen (Rural Industries Bureau publications series.no.54): Rural Industries Bureau: Books . Some of the exercises are a little archaic but all of them teach important principles. ST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 That book and other complementary CoSIRA publications are available as a free download from Craft publications Along with catalogues for ironwork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethersin Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 Thank's alot guy's for the info, Just need to wait for the weather to get nice, before i can get back out there.. rain is okay to an extent... hail is not fun. Need to get my stuff moved into my shed, while im on that, my shed is galvonised.. I guess I will need to put some heat sheilds up, will plasterboard be enough or something similar.. Or is it just a bad idea to use the shed? Glenn can ya' check your messages, cheer's. Thank's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDJ Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 A galvanized shed should be just fine, as long as you are not heating the walls up enough to get them smoking. You also do not want to be grinding / sanding on the walls as that will cause the metals to become airborne as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethersin Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 (edited) Ah cheer's for clearing that up Nate, Yeah I think i'll put something infront of any hot area anyway, plasterboard or even some wood.. make charcoal as i go . Well today I got fed up of been "smogged" to death by coal so i made a make shift temporary chimnley, out of one of those metal bin's that open when you press the button with your foot. It probably wasn't the best idea, having a boiling hot bin relativly sturdily balanced on top of a wind visor for a bbq over my forge.. Anyway It was a little less smoggy, here's a picture of the "teeter-totter chimnley" Cheer's Edited October 30, 2008 by Ethersin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Shiny shimmy chimnly? Wibbly wobbly chimbly? Farriers should like it, it's shiny. I don't know if it's available on your side of the pond but 6' or so of 8" stove pipe with a 6" x 6" opening cut in the side at one end simply sitting on the forge table behind the fire will draw smoke surprisingly well. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethersin Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Ah okay I'll see what everyone will say if i rip the stove pipe out of our kitchen.. It's not used.. Sooo should be fine.. I'm blaming all else on you I expect we have something similar around here, I'll have a look. Thank's for the head's up. Cheer's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDJ Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I am using an old hot water heater that I cut the top and bottom off of. Cut a hole in the side and welded it to the forge table and it does the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethersin Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Ah, see I am taking all these idea's in for when I finally get my shed sorted out. I don't have a table for my forge currently.. But i gotta shiny bin... Which now has a grinded up ol' lump of a quality street box stuffed in top to help. Well today i was teaching my brother the basics of how to heat and hit metal. He made some funny little squiggly thing.. it sort of looks like an 8 on a plate... I'll post a picture later. I also hardened off my knife. Didn't go to plan. Well I heated it up to a sort of darky sort of yellow.. Checked if it was magnetic.. But while doing this realised when i pulled the blade out of the fire, and brought it up it just sagged bent... which sucked.. Well in the end i repeated the process about 3 times, was quite annoyed to find at some point a nitch had appeared in my blade near the tip, I'll add a photo aswell.. Well basicly next time I'm going to use either a leaf spring or a tractor plow disk, or some general 5160.. Or whatever the number was. If i can find any.. With out getting caught ripping apart car's or tractors... Cheer's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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