keeplokd Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Well folks, here's for trying to do things the RIGHT way! I had to pay on my truck insurance today. I stopped in and sat down with one of the nice ladies in the office. When that was done, I asked, "Since I'm here, let me ask you something about my homeowner's policy..." I won't bore you with the whole conversation, but the key words of MY end were: "hobby shop; garage separated from house by many yards; blacksmithing; coal or propane forge; mother-may-I?" Her end of it: "free-standing fire; immediate cancellation; NO." She even checked with the underwriters to see (without giving my name) and it was double NO. Where does that leave me? A king without a kingdom. Any ideas? Do I really have to register this as a business? I'm in New York State (near Rochester / Buffalo) if that helps. Assistance is appreciated. Bill:(:confused::o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticka Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 I would call as many insurance companies as you can to get quotes and second opinions. Can't hurt, maybe you'll get a better rate or better coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1860cooper Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 "...proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeplokd Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 Atticka - working on it. cooper - I'd have to get this news on the 7th anniversary of 9/11, wouldn't I? It would just be my luck to run "outlaw" and something (God forbid) happens. I'd rather be out of my hobby than out of a house. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticka Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 well, keep in mind that it is not against the "law" to go without insurance, just risky. If you are calling insurance companies direct, try contacting an insurance broker instead. A broker is usually a little more flexible and willing to work with you on a special policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1860cooper Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 You know, I'm too conservative to like the ACLU, but sometimes... its amazing what people will impose on people. I know insurance is a private entity and they aren't preventing you from smithing if you don't mind dropping them, but sheesh. I know its said a lot around here, but how different is a gas forge from a BBQ? You should turn your car off before you roll into the driveway because that may be a freestanding fire too. I'm lucky enough to live in the country, which helps (though its amazing how even country neighbors can be), but my state/county is still pretty gifted in restricting freedoms in general. The West isn't as wild as it could be, should be, or was. I'm not meaning to make you madder. I think you'll work it out somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticka Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 You make a good point Cooper, you could always claim that your forge is a BBQ (even easier to prove if you use charcoal!), that blower attachment improves the flavor of your steaks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 In my last house the detached garage was listed as "worthless" on the policy and so not covered. I forged 15 years in it before moving with never a fire that wasn't stopable by a splash of water from the quench tub. (A couple of months after we moved it burned down---mysteriously) So how do you start a flood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilwarblacksmith Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 You can try the hartford insurance if you are an Abana member. Maybe you will have better luck than I did. Commercial property/Liability insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironrosefarms Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I have to wonder about a standard fireplace? Is that a free standing fire? I would have to think that some company out there would be willing to take your money and allow you to have a working forge as a hobby. I agree it is time to shop around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I was told by my insurance that I could not weld, forge, solder, braze or any other craft that involved an open flame within ten feet of my open garage door or in my garage, nor could I weld with any apparatus that generated a spark or arc. They would drop a load to see what I do in the kitchen to anneal my silver and copper for jewelry. I guess they have a right to their point of view since they are on the hook for my house if it burns down but if I'm out in the back yard away from the house how is that their business? I suppose I should be looking for some cheap commercial property to rent, fat chance of that.:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGropp Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I have my shop and business insured through Industrial Coverage Corp . through association with ABANA. [ check the ad in the latest ''Anvils Ring''] They have good coverage for fire, theft and liability. They ask a lot of questions that indicate that they are no strangers to the everyday operations of blacksmith / welding and metal shops. The rates are half of anything else I was quoted, even if other companies would consider it. I've been covered by them for at least ten years. In todays business climate, you cannot install any kind of architectural metalwork on site without being licensed ,bonded and insured and provide written proof with a certificate of insurance. General contractors have been hit with huge increases in insurance costs and are required by law that all subcontractors be legit. and fully covered. It's a substantial annual expense but if you are doing this for a living you can't be without it, period. There's a lot more to all of this besides hitting hot iron with a hammer. [that's the fun part] I have no idea how this applies to a hobby or part time smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephan P Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 You should see the premiums for a portable welding business, specially when doing things like fuel cell customization work. Between insurance prices and fuel prices its enough to force a person into a different line of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolsey Blacksmithing Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 My first questin is: do you run a welder, grinder, or a torch? Now with that asked, I have seen many more fires started by those three things than I have ever seen by a forge in my 8 years of blacksmithing. If your worried about sparks comming from the chimny... then put a spark arrestor on it. Second... will you insurance company accept a "Coal Furnace" or "Coal Firepalce" without canceling you? If they don't then to heck with them. Just use common sence while smithing... and keep watter or a fire extinguisher on hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solvarr Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 If they have an actuary table for it they can insure it. try contacting Lloyds of London. They insure a buddy of mine's house whose armoring shop is smaller than my kitchen and chock full of welding gear and a gas forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilwarblacksmith Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 ABANA offers insurance through the Hartford insurance company. It is Industrial Coverage Corp. It is supposed to be for Hobbyists; part-time smith and full-time smiths. Ok here is the rub. It is commercial insurance coverage. I am a part-time smith and also have a non-profit foundation that does the re-enactments. I have qualified smiths that help me or are embers of the foundation and participate in the event. The underwriter saw my web page photos and that these members were helping in the work area, which is where they belong. They would write the policy because they were not my employees. Premiums are supposed to be as low as $250.00. You can give it a try.Industrial Coverage Corporation - Nomma & Abana Insurance Programms, Wholesale Division or call Michael J. Romeo at 800-242-9872 ext.115 Good luck let me know how it works for you. I'm still looking for insurance also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobae Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 You don't need to be an ABANA member for them to work with you. They gave me quite a reasonable quote for doing public demos and re-enactments (yearly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilwarblacksmith Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I tried them and they wouldn't insure me due to other volunteer smiths being in the work place. I wanted insurance for the public demos and re-enactments. Gobae, How long ago did you get your insurance and with whom did you speak to? Maybe I went about the insurance wrong. Did you apply as a non-profit or a volunteer? I could use some help in this, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobae Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I got the quote back in July-August of 2008. But it wasn't from Michael, it was Lori Rasmuson (same company); Michael never returned my phone calls nor email. In our situation we get paid to demo at 2 county fairs and do 2-3 re-enactment demos (for free) for other non-profits. When I spoke with Lori their primary concerns were participation by the public, and whether the public was able to roam through the demo area. They had no problem that my wife and 2 other assistants would be involved with the demos. Finally, just to clarify our status with them - While we received a quote we never ended up purchasing insurance from them. As it turned out all the venues we participate at elected to cover us under their insurance policies; so we didn't need our own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 ya i have the same insurance ... it is for my shop and doing demos ...in fact a show i am doing in march requires insurance for all vendors .it dosnt allow me to teach tho.. i am looking at maybee doing teaching at someone elses shop ... then i dont need the insurance... they do.it is one way around the "not allowing anyone to work in your shop" problem.I am lucky and have a nice shop that rent is cheap . the insurance costs me more a month than the rent ... of course the museum gets a demonstrater for 8 months of the year so it works out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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