1860cooper

Green Field Village, Dearborn MI by the Henry Ford museum... probably the second or third largest historic village in the USA... They have a blacksmith shop and no blacksmith. In my 10 minutes of standing around I heard half a dozen comments from people regretting there not being a working blacksmith there anymore. That's ten minutes out of one day, and they are open all day every day half of the year. I tried to ask what the story was on it... finally one of the tinsmith's told me (as the story goes) they used to have one staff blacksmith, and half a dozen or so part-timers. Then the full-timer went union (somehow), and that caused the part-timers to have to go union (regrettably) then eventually (not surprisingly!) there was a breakdown and the blacksmiths left. It seems like a supreme waste for such a nice shop (imported from England!) just sitting there doing nothing as tens of thousands of visitors pass by. Does anyone know more about this story? Has anyone approached or been approached by Greenfield Village about the smithy shop?

Interesting. I work from home, so I'm bringing my job with me. Yeah I am hoping to nab some good deals on tools and equipment. We're moving to a near-suburb of Detroit, not far from the junction of 75 and 696. And if I can keep business steady enough, yeah I'd like to pick up a house/property too. It's kind of hard for a young self-employed with a limited credit history a home loan. Being self-employed, no matter what I make, classifies me as sub-prime. Oh... and I have not seen great deals from U-Haul... in fact I'm pretty horrified on what they want for a trailer. I might buy one instead.

Making a really big move, from beautiful Oregon to er, um... metro Detroit. Don't ask, but its a good thing. Anyways, are there people here in that area (Detroit, Ann Arbor, Flint, etc.)? And are there any good blacksmithing or antique tool organizations?

Was studying pictures from the Civil War. One was of the room Stonewall Jackson had died in, post war (the photo was post war. Jackson of course died during the war of wounds inflicted by friendly fire). The room was empty except for coopers tools which also included a rail on a sawhorse. Not sure what it was for... they had a stack of wood bands, so they probably weren't cutting and riveting metal bands. Anyhow, thought it was interesting to see it documented. I've heard of short-horn anvils being a 19th century thing, but I saw a photo of a military blacksmith with what looked like a 200lb anvil with a horn as long as any. These are in books, so I can't just post a link for you. Sorry.

Ooh... That's a good lead! Went there yesterday. Took me a while to find it, only for the guy to tell me $100. "It's an antique". I about gagged. It had a lot of problems, and pretty much looked like xxxx, and more likely to rust into powder than be a mantlepiece for anyone. I told him I could get a perfectly functional one for $100, rather than this one that has several problems. He said he can't negotiate... I'd have to talk to the regular weekday guy. But if they want $100 now I can't see them coming down enough to make it worthwhile to me. The steel yard is kinda cool, but I already have a bad taste in my mouth.

Oh, wow, I can't uncurl my toes! Glad it worked out for you though.

Some of their youtube videos... okay all of their youtube videos are awesome! Tillers International: Homepage

I think I've met you at Antique Powerland, maybe? I'm an old acquaintance of Robert Race. He's been the closest thing to a blacksmithing mentor I've had. Coopering at Ft. Vancouver sounds like a lot of fun! I actually haven't been there... call me crazy. Part of my mission is to supply casks to Civil War and any other period groups that need general and varied casks. Any of you can track my persuits. I really want that post vice there in Newberg... if I can scrounge up the $. I talked to the guy, he needs the cash so he's not going to be dickered down. Also, ideally if I got an anvil, I'd like a smaller one, maybe 55+lbs, because if I'm hauling that thing around and my main thing isn't blacksmithing, a 200 pounder would be a drag. But at this point I'll take anything. Piece of rail might be good, as long as the land lady doesn't think I'm becoming a junk collector.

Give me a few months and I'll be making them. Maybe not in time for you. Half a wine barrel isn't really period, but it's pretty darn close. The main difference is general cooperage used any wood on hand. Not the choicest oak seasoned for three years like wine barrels are. Also casks generally varied in size and the wine barrel size was perhaps not the most common. Still, it would work.

Yeah I'm not so concerned about raw materials. I can scrounge them up, despite the run on scrap by the local potheads. I do have a spare axe head and a good sledge. I think if I can just nail down a post vise and anvil, or something anvil-esque (I'd rather just have an anvil, but who wouldn't?), and got some coal, I would be in business. I have that old rivet forge (which y'all have seen) waiting to be put to use. I need to make some setting hoops (would be cake with a power hammer), and a cold-work arrangement for riveting cask hoops. (where do you buy steel by the strip for hoops?). Then I need to buy or make a coopers adze. And pick up some drawknives to be curved for convex and concave shaving. Then when I finish my shave horse and those things above I can at least be staving and shaping casks. The croze, curved-plane and some other things can come in round two.

I'm loving the BBQ lid thing! :D

That's why I put it to you as a question. I called on that $100 vise. Its not far from my location at all. Looks worthwhile if I can scrounge up $100.

@Glenn Yeah Willamette Valley is the name of the valley, not a particular place. I'm not far from Salem (the State Capitol). I'm definitely in a make-do mode right now. I did pick up some dull cutting tongs that can serve as tongs. Eventually I'll want a nice historically accurate set, but that can wait since I don't have to have that stuff on-site. I have contacts with the NWBA but I haven't pursued that avenue yet. That get-together looks tempting. @nett Yeah, you're right about a croze. I thought about modifying a few HF chisels into the configuration needed. I'm desperately short on wood tools too, but I think I can hack it. When I can I'll buy at least one, but that probably won't happen before May. I have several carpenters hammers of different sorts, and one ball-peen, so I guess I could make do with those. Yeah I need to dig up some good hardwood, but at least I don't need a lot of it. I also found it's a myth that casks must be made of oak, or any hardwood, depending on what the cask is to be suited for. So I can start with Lowes until I get my own rolling bandsaw. @cheftjcook You know, even though I use Craigslist, it never occurred to me to look for Blacksmithing stuff on there. Duh me. @everyone I know its going to cost, but I just have to deal with reality and work with it. Hey, I was wondering if the big bench vise on HF would even do in a pinch. It has a flat area on it. Not an anvil by a stretch, but would it temporarily kill two birds with one stone? What think ye? Harbor Freight

I'm getting desperate. I set myself up for mission impossible: I'm starting cooperage this summer, and I need to make some of my tools, and at this juncture I only have a forge (no anvil, no clamp, no tongs, no good hammer) and a shoestring budget. All this on a deadline because I need to be at least partially coopering by May. Any leads would be greatly, profoundly, and thoroughly appreciated. And if anyone has a spare croze sitting around... never mind. :rolleyes:

Good replies. 1859 is on the cusp of the American Civil War, which is to your advantage, because most everything (excluding weapon advancements) in the 1860's also came from the 1850's. Definitely crank blower forges are out. From what I can tell in the cities some bricks-and-mortar blacksmith shops had blowers, but for mobile or rural forging, all bellows. If you are big on authenticity, there is a thin line to walk in terms of rustic vs. refined. I think some of that depends, as has been mentioned, on your back-story. I see many CW reenactors that are too rustic, and many of their tools and accouterments are more like Revolutionary or even pre-Revolutionary (that is 150 years in the wrong direction) because we think everything old was rustic. Also, common tools, furniture, anything that is often replaced would look new or not-old, because they weren't antiques back then! My non-sourced guess is a Blacksmith at the time did a wide variety of things, from wagon repair, to tool making (particularly lumber related tools), trap repair, probably about anything anyone could need.

I became involved unintentionally, for which I'm thankful. I was brought on for the summer as a demonstrator at Ft.Stephens, OR. I was supposed to do military demonstrations, talks, tours, but they Ft. had a falling out with their previous blacksmiths so a compete smithy shop was at my disposal if I wanted to tinker. And tinker I did. I've been a Civil War reenactor on and off for 13 years. A year ago I was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome so for that and other reasons I've come to terms that soldiering isn't in my future (sigh). And now I'm married, and my wife has a passion for history herself, so we're preparing to get back into reenacting as civilians, as you may guess, as a cooper. So I'm trying to get back into smithing so I can make some specialized tools and such as I'll need for historical trade work. Here's to equally crazy and supportive wives. :D

That's fine. You try harder and are more honest than so many I run across. I have some interesting stories along that subject. I don't think it takes a doctoral thesis, but you're right, Civil War is much easier, yet even then people just don't do the research... you wonder if they've even gone through one book of pictures analytically. Happy forging.

I'm a stickler on historic accuracy and, well, lets say that I'm disappointed more often than not. I like your thought, Sam, and it makes sense but I'm not sure you can get away with it if you want to call yourself authentic (maybe you don't). It would be sort of period-esque, but what would you say when the admiring public asks questions: "Is that the way they made forges back then?" "Why did they make forges like that?" etc. Don't consider yourself too picked on... I suffer a lot of general frustration in the Civil War group I'm in, amongst other things, because there is so much guessing and so little research... reenacting in Oregon is more like a dress-up party (the Blacksmiths take a lot of liberties too), and no one is really preserving history. At least you did some research.

You know, I'm too conservative to like the ACLU, but sometimes... its amazing what people will impose on people. I know insurance is a private entity and they aren't preventing you from smithing if you don't mind dropping them, but sheesh. I know its said a lot around here, but how different is a gas forge from a BBQ? You should turn your car off before you roll into the driveway because that may be a freestanding fire too. I'm lucky enough to live in the country, which helps (though its amazing how even country neighbors can be), but my state/county is still pretty gifted in restricting freedoms in general. The West isn't as wild as it could be, should be, or was. I'm not meaning to make you madder. I think you'll work it out somehow.

"...proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free..."

Yeah, I have three such lifetime regrets, so I would encourage you to "just do it".

Used to be people knew if I was bidding on something, anything, they would want it too. So I had to make a price sheet and use parents or siblings to do the bidding. That threw the dogs off my scent.

I've used Sketchup for a while and I love it. I haven't used it in the blacksmithing context yet, but its inevitable. I have a background in some of the more heavyweight 3D programs and can say SU is not a full blown 3D modeling program, but it is really fast and simple and I end up using it a lot to plan out things. Lately I've been planning some woodworking with it. The following site is very helpful for planning multi-piece projects, its woodworking, but I think in principle a lot of it applies to metal work too: Design. Click. Build. Also, there are bunches of good videos on youtube, some put out by the Sketchup team themselves, that teach about everything imaginable related to working in SU.

Yeah, I was thinking "who hasn't been burned by scale?". It's quite common. The beauty of it is it doesn't usually bounce off, it burns in. My instinctive flick of my are usually doesn't shake it. I had to get used to a brushing off reaction instead.

My only thought is, if you don't mind a location based name, look into lesser known names for your area. At least around here we have communities that are older than many of our towns. I lived in place with a "Dayton" address but the community was Pleaseantdale... the latter isn't on a map but it sounds a lot better and it's real. Or another example, we lived in a 100 year old house that all the locals called "The Grabenhorst Place". To me "Grabenhorst" is also better sounding than "Dayton". Do that kind of thing and the old-timers will like it, and the new-timers will learn something. That's the history buff in me.