Opinions please?

[Dixon]

On 11/27/2023 at 9:34 AM, Frosty said:

DRATS! I didn't mean to confuse or interrogate you. I got that you're completely new to gas forges in your first post. Asking questions is a GOOD thing, especially good questions. 

I was only trying to help you figure out how to evaluate what you have, not make things harder.

No worries! I haven't construed anything that you've said, or that anyone has said, as anything but a sincere effort to be helpful. That's exactly what I was asking for, and that's exactly what you all have given me, and I really appreciate it. For now, I've ordered a two burner Mister Volcano, and will temporarily ignore the yard sale thing I now have. If some time spent messing with the new forge gives me a tiny fraction of your understanding of gas forges, and gives me some confidence about deciding what to do with the other one, or about trying my hand at building a forge, it'll definitely prove to have been a worthwhile investment.  I've certainly spent that amount of money on plenty of stupider things, that's for sure.  

[Mikey98118]

It will give you all of that. More to the point, it will awaken your appetite for gas forging; this is why you want to hold on to the other forge parts. Yet, no matter what other forges you buy or build, that first small forge will remain you preferred tool, because it costs the least to run, and doesn't over heat your shop in "the good old summer time."

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Also that way you get to compare the Mister Volcano burners with the one in the yard sale forge.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[Dixon]

I suppose so, but after having now read tons of material on this site, I doubt there's very much to be learned from looking at that yard sale forge anymore. As ignorant as I am, I'm pretty sure that a piece of rectangular tubing, pointed upwards and inserted into the side of the forge at an angle from underneath, doesn't even qualify as a "burner".

Edited December 3, 2023 by Mod30
Excessive quoting

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning,

Art Anderson is still involved with the NWBA. I have looked at his Forges with him, many a time. They are simple and they work awesome. If you wish to contact Art, PM me, I will get you his contact information.

Neil

[Dixon]

One of the many things I find fascinating about life is the frequency with which my mind is completely blown. Very often, that takes the form of having meticulously formed a belief which appears to be based on the best information available to me, which nevertheless turns out to be absolutely false, or only partially true. I suspect that most people don't enjoy being dead wrong quite as much as I do. I find it absolutely exhilarating. If you don't mind, I would very much appreciate hearing more about how "awesome" this thing is, since the burner design appears to violate EVERY principle I've read about on this entire site.  Purely in terms of sheer surprise value, you may as well have just  informed me that the Dalai Lama kidnapped the Lindbergh Baby. As usual, I must be missing something. And yes, I would definitely like to have Mr. Anderson's contact information.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Mod30
Excessive quoting

[Frosty]

About it violating EVERY principle you've read here. Something to know about the things you read on ANY forum or social media, etc. Most are written by people who've "learned" myth-information or have discovered something and want to share. Sharing your discoveries are a good thing but not necessarily useful to another beginner except maybe moral support.

I cherish having my mistakes pointed out, it's the essence of the scientific method. Start with a thought and refine it by trimming away the mistakes until what's left is a valid description of what is. AND as new tests, measuring and observing methods and devices are developed what we thought we knew often turns out wrong or in need of tweaking. 

I've had to modify my perception of knowledge over the years, I don't think we can actually KNOW much of anything, what we "know" are actually descriptions of what we can observe and measure. That's where my understanding is now. Einstein and Newton had some really good descriptions, some still not disproven or replaced by better.

Let us know what you get and how it works. For the record I highly suggest you hang onto the forge you got, it's not a lost cause once you have a handle on how they work it'll make a fine forge for certain things.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Dixon]

9 hours ago, Frosty said:

I don't think we can actually KNOW much of anything, what we "know" are actually descriptions of what we can observe and measure.

Amen. It's exponentially easier to "believe" something than it is to "know" something. That's about the only thing I "know".

9 hours ago, Frosty said:

I cherish having my mistakes pointed out, it's the essence of the scientific method. Start with a thought and refine it by trimming away the mistakes until what's left is a valid description of what is.

That's what I meant by enjoying being dead wrong. Regularly being wrong is a great way to maintain the mental flexibility needed to remember how fallible our thought processes are.

[Dixon]

10 hours ago, Frosty said:

About it violating EVERY principle you've read here. Something to know about the things you read on ANY forum or social media, etc. Most are written by people who've "learned" myth-information or have discovered something and want to share. Sharing your discoveries are a good thing but not necessarily useful to another beginner except maybe moral support.

Fair enough. However, when trying to inform myself about a subject with which I have no experience, such as gas forges, I don't consider it entirely irrational to begin by consulting the opinions of people who DO have experience. That's the fundamental principle of technological and cultural development. If every individual had to start from a position of zero information, without the benefit of any shared knowledge or experience, the human species wouldn't have survived. Neither would most other species, for that matter.

I don't have to believe that all of the thousands upon thousands of words I've read on this site are infallibly accurate, or channeled directly from the mind of God, or even part of some broad consensus in order to find value in them. That's why I've been poring over these thousands upon thousands of words.

[Frosty]

I have to stop rambling about things philosophical, it doesn't advance learning the craft. I'll be more than happy to shoot the breeze though but how are you coming along with your forge build?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

On 12/3/2023 at 9:25 PM, Dixon said:

or have discovered something and want to share. Sharing your discoveries are a good thing but not necessarily useful to another beginner except maybe moral support.

Well, as "an old hand" on this subject, I find that moral support means a tremendous whole big lot for beginners

Twenty years back, I had a "class" or four people who wanted expert help to build very hot gas forges, run by extremely hot burners. One of the four was an airline pilot; he was far from a mental slouch. Yet, even when confronted by the other three having built successful burners, with perfect flames, he could not believe that he would; I think it was a question of wanting to succeed too much. The closer he came to completing his burner, the more he didn't believe that his burner would work, just like everyone else's did. Finally, the day came for him to light it up...and it worked perfectly. You should have seen the grin on his face! Lesson learned; moral support is as at least as necessary as as correct information, for beginners.

[Dixon]

On 12/7/2023 at 9:19 AM, Frosty said:

I have to stop rambling about things philosophical, it doesn't advance learning the craft.

Well, I believe that philosophy advances just about everything, if by 'philosphy' we mean the effort to improve the methodologies we use for our reasoning. Anyway, thanks for asking about my forge dilemma. I decided to get a dual burner Mr. Volcano and set it up alongside the yard sale forge, and simply play with both for a while. That ought to give me at least a kindergarten introduction to gas forges. That alone would be more than worth the total investment.

On 12/7/2023 at 12:22 PM, Mikey98118 said:

One of the four was an airline pilot; he was far from a mental slouch. Yet, even when confronted by the other three having built successful burners, with perfect flames, he could not believe that he would.

That pilot was a man after my own heart! I think it's helpful to approach the unknown with a sense of self-confidence, as long as it's tempered with hefty doses of humility and skepticism. Even serious self-doubt has its place.

[Mikey98118]

That was when I started calling it "the magic flame" in my mind. Because, in his mind it was magic. Before, such flames were just business as usual. So, he taught me more than I taught him