Dixon

Well, I believe that philosophy advances just about everything, if by 'philosphy' we mean the effort to improve the methodologies we use for our reasoning. Anyway, thanks for asking about my forge dilemma. I decided to get a dual burner Mr. Volcano and set it up alongside the yard sale forge, and simply play with both for a while. That ought to give me at least a kindergarten introduction to gas forges. That alone would be more than worth the total investment. That pilot was a man after my own heart! I think it's helpful to approach the unknown with a sense of self-confidence, as long as it's tempered with hefty doses of humility and skepticism. Even serious self-doubt has its place.

Fair enough. However, when trying to inform myself about a subject with which I have no experience, such as gas forges, I don't consider it entirely irrational to begin by consulting the opinions of people who DO have experience. That's the fundamental principle of technological and cultural development. If every individual had to start from a position of zero information, without the benefit of any shared knowledge or experience, the human species wouldn't have survived. Neither would most other species, for that matter. I don't have to believe that all of the thousands upon thousands of words I've read on this site are infallibly accurate, or channeled directly from the mind of God, or even part of some broad consensus in order to find value in them. That's why I've been poring over these thousands upon thousands of words.

Amen. It's exponentially easier to "believe" something than it is to "know" something. That's about the only thing I "know". That's what I meant by enjoying being dead wrong. Regularly being wrong is a great way to maintain the mental flexibility needed to remember how fallible our thought processes are.

One of the many things I find fascinating about life is the frequency with which my mind is completely blown. Very often, that takes the form of having meticulously formed a belief which appears to be based on the best information available to me, which nevertheless turns out to be absolutely false, or only partially true. I suspect that most people don't enjoy being dead wrong quite as much as I do. I find it absolutely exhilarating. If you don't mind, I would very much appreciate hearing more about how "awesome" this thing is, since the burner design appears to violate EVERY principle I've read about on this entire site. Purely in terms of sheer surprise value, you may as well have just informed me that the Dalai Lama kidnapped the Lindbergh Baby. As usual, I must be missing something. And yes, I would definitely like to have Mr. Anderson's contact information.

I suppose so, but after having now read tons of material on this site, I doubt there's very much to be learned from looking at that yard sale forge anymore. As ignorant as I am, I'm pretty sure that a piece of rectangular tubing, pointed upwards and inserted into the side of the forge at an angle from underneath, doesn't even qualify as a "burner".

No worries! I haven't construed anything that you've said, or that anyone has said, as anything but a sincere effort to be helpful. That's exactly what I was asking for, and that's exactly what you all have given me, and I really appreciate it. For now, I've ordered a two burner Mister Volcano, and will temporarily ignore the yard sale thing I now have. If some time spent messing with the new forge gives me a tiny fraction of your understanding of gas forges, and gives me some confidence about deciding what to do with the other one, or about trying my hand at building a forge, it'll definitely prove to have been a worthwhile investment. I've certainly spent that amount of money on plenty of stupider things, that's for sure.

I'm not at all sure it IS a good idea. That's the point. My understanding and/or experience with the esoteric mysteries of gas burners (and gas forges, in general) are so woefully inadequate, that I can't even properly assess a good idea. I'm just wondering if there's a decent chance that I might have a little better starting point with an entirely different unit. It would undoubtedly have its problems, but might have fewer than the thing I've got. My impression, which is quite likely misguided, is that, if I were to follow all of the suggestions offered in this thread, I'd be salvaging a U-shaped piece of sheet steel and not much else. Even that has a large rectangular hole in its side, once the sad excuse for a burner is removed. I love tinkering with stuff as much as the next guy, but I'm not sure how much time, effort, money, and brain damage this thing really deserves. I'm sure it would be easy for you to turn it into something worthwhile, because everything is easy if you know how. I consider it easy to play the 5-string banjo, train a saddle horse, build and configure a PDC server from scratch, and bake a mean batch of biscuits, but not everybody does. This is exactly the approach I'm feeling inclined to take. I'm betting that with a little time and experience with any gas forge, I'll have a better grasp on what ought to be done with the thing I've got, if anything. Meanwhile, it's not eating anything sitting out in the shed, and my cash investment in it (so far) amounts to less than one of my infrequent visits to the local saloon.

I really appreciate all of the encouragement and valuable information you folks have so generously provided. If I decide to bother trying to turn this thing into something that's halfway worthwhile, I'll let you know how it turns out. The more I'm learning about gas forges, though, the more it seems that the biggest, or maybe only, advantage to this forge is the fact that it happens to be sitting here right now. Not much aside from that, apparently. It looks like two hundred bucks (or even less) might get me into something that's already better designed and would represent a lot less time and hassle getting to the 'adequately functional' point. As it now stands, I've got no time or work, and only negligible money, invested in this yard sale find of mine, so I'm wondering if I shouldn't quit while I'm ahead (or only slightly behind). Any thoughts?

In general, I'd call it "smaller and less ambitious stuff" than what I used to do. I always did a fair amount of knives, swords, armor, tools, and architectural hardware, all of which it would be nice to resume on some scale. I'm not really interested in pursuing bigger projects anymore, like larger architectural pieces and the like. Too old, tired, and stove up for that. The truth is that blacksmithing was never my all-consuming passion, the way I suspect it is for many folks. I got into it indirectly, as a supportive adjunct to other things I do. For instance, in silversmithing, it's pretty vital to be able to forge ones own tools, and historical saddlery and furniture and similar things require a lot of hardware. I once built a full size 19th century wagon from scratch, which a lot of folks would consider a primarily wooden object. It required, in fact, a huge number of iron parts, all of which I forged myself (couldn't have built it otherwise). As I mentioned earlier, 100% of my previous work was done with a coal forge, which I'm still equipped for. When the cheap gas forge unexpectedly presented itself, I thought (in my usual oversimplified way) that it might be cool to be able to quickly whip out some item I need for a project without having to fire up the coal forge every time. I'm still fine relying on coal primarily, especially on those rare occasions when I've planned well enough to get a reasonable amount of productivity out of a given session. My goal isn't to have the world's penultimate gas forge, but it would be nice to be able to use it intelligently enough so that I don't watch it self-destruct through my own ignorance. In that light, I've been very interested in reading the material from you and others on this site discussing various approaches to dealing with a gas forge's innards, even though some of those discussions have been a bit contentious. Reliably achieving welding heat without wrecking things would be a definite plus. By the way, it didn't require any special expertise on my part to recognize that the burner on this thing is a joke. It's basically just a short chunk of rectangular tubing. Anyway, hopefully that helps clarify what I'm up to, and I appreciate your knowledge and insight.

As usual, you folks have been very generous with your expertise. Your advice sent me delving deeper into the subject (mostly on this site), and I'm starting to think that this thing is 'a forge' in the same way that a stack of lumber is 'a Chippendale chair'.

Hello folks, I've always been a coal guy and have never used any sort of gas forge. However, I picked one up at a yard sale for next to nothing several years ago and it's been in storage ever since. After many years without a shop, I finally have a space for it so I've started trying to figure the thing out. I haven't put much time into researching it yet but a quick search turned up nothing. I'm hoping someone here might be familiar with it. Any opinions, advice, and/or information are much appreciated. It's marked "Art Anderson's Pioneer Iron Works, Lolo, MT". The tag shows a phone number which is no longer in service, and I haven't found any other number associated with either Art Anderson or Pioneer Iron Works. With my extremely limited knowledge of such things, my impression is that it's a very basic unit. The burner design is noticeably less elaborate than the ones I've seen elsewhere, for instance. I'm totally prepared to be told that the forge may not be worth bothering with, since there are so many affordable options out there these days. Anyway, here are a few pics:

Yep, annealing is certainly critical. I learned that the hard way forty years ago. It's an awful lot of fun watching an expensive piece of sterling silver crack right down the middle, especially when you've invested a ton of time on it.

I think the method you and George are discussing might be the next one I try. I see so many advantages in starting with a piece of tubing.

Another great idea. I really appreciate it!

Thanks! That sounds like a very workable approach, and gives me a lot to ponder. Another excellent suggestion. Do you see any reason that the swage and fuller couldn't (or shouldn't) be forged to match the curvature of the cantle?