SlowJam Posted August 27, 2023 Share Posted August 27, 2023 Someone is selling a Queens Dudley (I believe it’s a Wilkinson) for $350 CAD. Looks to be in good shape but unknown weight. Dimensions are 12.25” x 3.75” face, 9.5” high, 2.75” flat part that is just lower than the face but before the horn, and the horn is 5.25” long. I can’t see any other markings in the photos. Does anyone know if it’s wrought iron or steel? Is this a good deal or a waste of time? I can’t see any major chips, cracks, or deformations. The face seems pretty flat too. Thoughts? Thanks everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted August 27, 2023 Share Posted August 27, 2023 I couldn't say if it is a good deal in your area. It doesn't sound like a crazy price. Can you post some pictures? Also if you go to look at it, make sure to do a ring and rebound test. That and condition will tell you if it is a good anvil. Iirc, they are wrought iron with a steel face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowJam Posted August 27, 2023 Author Share Posted August 27, 2023 Price just jumped to $500 after I expressed interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted August 27, 2023 Share Posted August 27, 2023 Well that is just bad business. "Looks" like a good usable anvil. Without seeing the weight stamp (possibly on the other side or not clearly visible) or knowing the weight, I'd have to guess it around the 100# mark. Jumping the price like that throws up red flags to me. The rust can easily be wire wheeled off. Obviously a rebound test would be a bit less than actual with the rust on the face. Not a big deal. In all honesty, if someone listed a price then after I expressed interest, they raise the price, I don't think I would want to deal with that person. That is just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowJam Posted August 27, 2023 Author Share Posted August 27, 2023 34 minutes ago, Daswulf said: In all honesty, if someone listed a price then after I expressed interest, they raise the price, I don't think I would want to deal with that person. That is just my opinion. It looks not too bad but I’d have to see it before committing to a purchase. But I’m not in the $500 range. They said they had another offer already (less than $500). I think they’re just trying to start a bidding war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted August 27, 2023 Share Posted August 27, 2023 Yeah, if they listed it for a price they should sell it for that price. If they want an actual auction put it in an actual auction and take the bad (low selling price) with the good (high selling price). If they list it outright it should be That price and first come first sold. I wouldn't deal with that kind of seller, but if you really want to try that is up to you and if you really want it I wouldn't fault you for it. Just saying that you haven't even tested the ring or rebound yet to know it hasn't possibly been through a barn fire and lost its hardness, or that it is a good anvil to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 If it's a commercial seller like a 2nd. hand store or big box they have to sell for the advertised price by law. A private seller isn't bound by law, they can change price as the mood or offer strikes them. Bummer but like Das says you didn't have a chance to evaluate it so it's gone, like smoke on the wind. That's a norm for smithing tools in this part of Alaska. <sigh> Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowJam Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 I didn’t mean to misrepresent. There was no list price but when I asked how much they were looking for I was told that an offer of $350 was already made. I offered a bit more but that I had to see it first. They then said no less than $500. Not a huge deal, mostly a waste of time for both of us I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 In that case I'm fairly certain the $350 offer was probably top dollar it was worth and the seller thought they could get more for it. It's a wonder they didn't tell you it was an antique. At least you didn't have to waste your time checking it out. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowJam Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 Thanks for all your replies. A decent second hand anvil for a reasonable price around these parts is no easy task so far. I’ve been looking for several months and it’s mostly chipped, broken, or rusting to the point of flaking anvils going for 5-10/lb. I’m not looking for perfect, but I don’t need to go for a ride either. I’m probably just going to go with a Vevor since I can get a brand new one for less than half of what most are asking for their damaged old ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Are you using an expedient anvil now? An anvil doesn't have to look a certain way for the smith to do good work on. All an anvil needs to be effective is a reasonably hard surface and enough weight to resist movement under hammer impacts. Some scrounged steel has a marvelous selection of shapes that will speed forgings. Don't reject perfectly good anvil because it doesn't have a horn, heel and hardy hole, all these things are easy to improvise. I'm not saying anything bad about Vevor anvils but I've never seen let alone worked on one so I can't opine. I have on the other hand improvised anvils I don't know how many hundreds of times. I used to have a field job that had me living in my tent 3/4 of the time and I'm not much of a drinker so I amused myself after work by forging (THINGS) using the campfire for heat and whatever was handy for an anvil. Confidence comes from knowing you can deal with what comes along without special tools. Seriously, if you can make what you need from scrap, what can't you do? Hmmmm? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Frosty is very right on that. It is the skills from learning and experience that do the work. You could give someone starting out the "best" tools and they might make the same quality project as they would on a chunk of scrap and with a cheap hammer. Give an experienced smith a chunk of scrap as an anvil and a cheap hammer and they would likely produce very similar quality as to what they make on the better tools they are used to. Don't wait to get started waiting on a london pattern anvil. Look through the Improvised Anvil thread here to see some cheap options. Then save your money so you can jump on that rare good deal on a nice fancy anvil that pops up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowJam Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 Fair points, Frosty. I’m brand new to this but I’ve been researching LOTS. I’m about to get a Mr. Volcano Hero single burner (was going to build one but I don’t trust myself to build a safe burner yet). My neighbors will like lose their minds if I burn coke/coal (though they never complain when I smoke brisket or pork butts for 12-18 hours!) so I’m sticking with gas for now. I don’t have anything for an anvil yet. I ordered a 88lb Vevor from Amazon over a month ago but they ran out of stock so it’s expected in a couple weeks (unless they push it back again). So, I’m considering putting up a bit more for an in-stock 132lb one instead. I can get it for $350 CAD. Surprisingly, I was able pick up a post vice already (looks to be a Peter Wright from everything I’ve seen so far). My next purchase for sure will be the forge and if my 88lb doesn’t come in before the forge I’ll cancel and get the 132. Thanks, Daswulf. I’d love to get started today but nothing hard enough to bang on just yet. I’d use a torch to heat metal for now if I had something to use as an anvil. I plan on using some scrap metal and a couple lengths of 5/8” rebar to practice on—just need to get something that won’t break when I beat on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 If you want to be reasonable sure it won't crumble, split or some other weirdness but steel from a supplier. No telling just what is in rebar it's made to performance specs so as long as it's tensil strength is at least x and the elongation under x, etc. it passes. There's just no telling for sure and evaluating found steel is a whole nother skills set. There's no good reason to add more slopes to the learning curve breaking into a new craft than necessary. Seriously, you'll learn the basics much faster if the steel behaves the same way every time you grab a fresh piece. A forge is EZ, you can pick up old BBQs and blow driers for next to noting any weekend garage saling, pack a little damp clayey soil in the BBQ, poke a piece of pipe through the side from outside and and scoop out what looks like a fire pot you'd like to use. Don't worry about getting it "right" you'll change this a dozen times easy but it's just dirt get a plastic bucket to store it in. Anyway, all you need is something fireproof to build a fire on and a blow drier to make it HOT. I'd bent the log tongs by using the back hoe to lift logs so I straightened it out. We were clearing land and I had no place to lock things up so my forge, anvil, etc. was home in it's shed. Behind me on the left is a 12v mattress inflater blower, can't really see the piece of pipe it's blowing into but that's all the special tools in the picture. I'm burning wood, using a 2lb. drill hammer and a birch block for the anvil. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 My Easiest to find recommendation on something to hammer on is a sledgehammer head. No need to buy new. It is still warm and fleamarkets and yard sales should still be going on. I often find them for $5-10. Sometimes less,it doesn't need the handle, and the lack of one could be a good bargaining point. It would get you started. Sketch one end of the sledgehammer head on the end of a stump or even a sturdy log, drill holes inside the lines to start then chisel out the rest till you have a snug fit. Even if it has a handle you can leave it on as to still use it as a sledgehammer later. I even have a splitting maul that fits the same hole to use as a hot cut. I have used them as proof of concept and they work. (Ive even used a chunk of granite and a cheap undressed ballpein to forge tongs out of rebar. ) Frosty is right on the rebar. It is the hotdog of metals and hard to know how it will forge. I have forged some that was pretty tough and miserable, if I had just been starting out it might have put me off. No problem messing around with it if you have the fuel and patience and time but you will get further faster working known steel types. Rebar can change hot forging properties within feet of the same stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 Frosty, how long ago was that photo taken? AD or BC? G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 97 I believe. . . AD Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 AD=Another Day ?? LOL Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowJam Posted August 29, 2023 Author Share Posted August 29, 2023 Thanks for the replies everyone. Frosty you’re a legend man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 Oh good grief. AD= Anonymous to Day . . . Please? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 If the shoe fit's wear it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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