Log splitter press info needed

[White Fox Forge]

Hi, I am interested in purchasing a log splitter to convert to a press. What are some things i should look for. From what I have heard I need at least a 20 ton splitter that can flip vertically. What stroke speed do I need? Are they better for Damascus and drawing out than a power hammer? How about a pedal? Possible convertibility to electric? I don't have a power hammer but I have used a 25 and 50 lb little giant before. Not the biggest fan to be truthful. I find them unwieldy and extremely violent. I believe this is because of my lack of skill and knowledge. I am NOT knocking power hammers by any means, I am just explaining my reasoning for wanting a press. Are presses more dangerous? What needs to be modified on them? 

I appreciate all the help I can get. Thanks!

WFF

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/63031-20ton-log-splitter-press/#comment-653963

There are several threads about them. The link above may answer some of your questions. I've seen a couple of them in action and the stroke & return would be too slow to suit me. By the time you buy the log splitter and things to convert it, you could buy a forging press for about the same money.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sails.

[White Fox Forge]

Ok. Thanks for the link! I took a look at the thread and it explained a bit however it didn't provide exactly what I needed. I did buy a 35 ton log splitter that is basically brand new. I am wondering how I should make the top die plate and holder. I have an idea for the bottom. Basically an inch thick plate with angle iron to hold the plate on. Do I replace the splitting wedge with a flat plate? Do I make a strel mold to go around the wedge? I'm not gonna be using it for anything besides a forge press. I've done a lot of research but I haven't been able to find a design for the ram plate that I really liked. 

Also will welding with a Lincoln 110v .035 flux core on 15 amp service be suffice for welding?

[George N. M.]

How my tradle hammer is set up may give you ideas:  The bottom plate has a 1" square hole so that various hardy tools can be used in it.  The top has the same 1" aquare hole in a square plate but the top tools have a loop of about 1" x 1/4" steel welded on and a wedge with a shallow slope on the top side is hammered in horizontally to hold the tool in place.  For my top hammer I cut a medium sledge head (Harbor Freight IIRC) just in front of the eye and had a loop welded on the cut side and filed weld at the shoulders of the loop squar so thet it would fit tight against the plate when the wedge was inserted and hammered tight.

I think something similar would work on a hydraulic press.  What is the recovery time of the ram?  That is, how fast will it repeat?

I hope this may help.

GNM

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

As far as the welding, I don't think that welder will do a good enough job considering the thickness of the plate you should be using.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[White Fox Forge]

That is a good design. I like that a lot. The cycle time is 14 seconds

[Frosty]

That welder if more in line with work around 1/8" thick, unless you make multiple passes. 

Most splitter carriages (moving die carrier) are simple affairs and pin to the ram. Make a carriage that clamps the die, as George suggests or with an angle iron and bolt clamp, etc. Just make the bottom dies on bolt plates that match the anvil plate on the splitter. 

People have been making all sorts of presses from log splitters since they've been made. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[George N. M.]

One of the things to pay attention to if you use the design I described is getting the top hole and tools to exactly line up with the bottom hole and tools.  For example, if you have cutting tools top and bottom the edges must line up exactly.  It is fussy but there really isn't an alternative. If I were doing it I would install either the top or bottom plate and then, assuming you will have 1" square holes, insert a 1" square bar to line up the opposite plate before welding it into position.  And make sure when welding loops or pices of bar to go into the top or bottom holes that they are exactly centered.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Frosty]

Excellent construction tip George! I'll ad just a bit to it regarding a bolt together design. Do the top plate first. That way any drilling you need to do on the bottom plate will be MUCH easier. Trying to drill a hole upwards is a major PITA to keep straight and true.

Frosty The Lucky. 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

14 hours ago, White Fox Forge said:

The cycle time is 14 seconds

That seems awfully slow to me. Especially when you are standing there with hot steel rapidly cooling off.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[Frosty]

Only let the top die raise to clear the work. Splitters don't have self centering (auto return) valves, they are detented, they stop the flow when you let off the lever. The ones I've run anyway, I can't speak for all log splitters but I doubt anybody wants the ram moving on it's own.

A 14 second cycle sounds like a long time but that's over at least a 20" stroke and that's pretty fast even for a 2 stage. 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[White Fox Forge]

Yeah. I tried it our and it worked decently. I should have let the steel heat up more. One guy i saw disassembled the lever action and took out one of the spring. It is always returning. You have a stop block that once it reaches a certain point pushes the lever to neutral. It's kind of hard to explain. Not sure if I'm gonna go with that design or not but it is stil cool.

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning,

You can make the pushrod adjustable and have it return to any height you wish. I wouldn't take a spring out of the detent, engineer it properly.

Neil

[Frosty]

Don't be modifying the valves Emery, it can lead to serious badness! Reposition the stop maybe but don't mess with the hydraulics it self.

Frosty The Lucky.

[White Fox Forge]

Alright. I am not planning on it. That seems a little too delicate for me. Thanks, Frosty 

[Frosty]

It's not that it's delicate it's how inherently hydraulics are. A pinhole leak say you didn't get that seal or fitting right and there's a pinhole leak, they can slice you like a laser, you might not even feel the cut and worse hydraulic fluid isn't a good thing to have circulating in your bloodstream.

Replacing a valve or hose is one thing but messing with how they work is a completely different kettle of vipers.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Hefty]

I second this. My uncle had to repair some hydraulics on a machine on his farm when he was younger and an unseen leak injected hydraulic fluid up through his middle finger, slicing tendons. The finger was saved but a combination of scar tissue from the tendon reconnection and the tissue damage from the hydraulic fluid mean that it is permanently half curled/clenched.

Makes me shudder just thinking about it.

[Frosty]

I just realized the mistake in my last post. It should read, "how inherently DANGEROUS hydraulics are." 

Frosty The Lucky.

[White Fox Forge]

Yeah hydraulics scare me. I'm debating making covers out of sheet metal for the hoses so that scale and hot steel can't damage them.

My idea for the ram/upper die is to cut the cutting edge of the wedge off and weld an 8 inch steel cylinder onto it. The cylinder has a 3 inch hole in the center that tapers to 1×3 inch. Weighs a good 65 lbs. Then I'm going to weld a thick plate over it to back the dieplate. Angle iron will hold the die plate against the ram head. I'll make a retaining pin of some sort. It'll have to be super heavy duty because I've heard that they bend really easy. Thoughts on the design? Also I found some pictures of splitter presses that people made. Can I share the screenshots of them? Idk if its copyright or not lol

I did get access to an industrial welder (I think it's SMAW ) from a friend's shop.

[Frosty]

If you're careful and follow the rules hydraulics is your friend. Old firehose is a preferred hydraulic hose cover, if it springs a leak the hose will just drip fluid. A "shield", metal, plastic, plywood, whatever CAN allow a leak to spray fluid into the air which can be B A D. 

Why make the mobile die so heavy? All the squeeze comes from hydraulic pressure it won't move fast enough to develop significant inertia. Just heavy enough to be a LITTLE stronger than necessary is just right. By a little a pretty standard level of overbuild is 30%, less in a compressive structure like a press.

I can't tell how the splitting sedge is attached to the ram. Is it threaded, pinned, or? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[White Fox Forge]

The wedge is pinned. The mobile die is that big to make sure the dies don't heat up too much. However itll suck the heat out of the steel too. I dont think the weight should affect the hydraulics. The real reason is I don't have any smaller steel lol. It's the same width as the splitting wedge so It fits. I have a few dozen pieces of the cylinders so I'm just happy to be able to use one.

I'll look for old firehose. Thanks.

[Frosty]

The dies won't be in hard contact with the work long enough to hurt them and the faster the dies heat up the hotter the work will stay, maybe an extra push or two. The hydraulics won't notice the extra weight and it won't do you a lick of good. 

All you need for the connector is a piece of pipe that slips over the ram close enough it doesn't wobble. Drill a hole for the pin and weld it to the die mount plate. Do NOT worry about making the retainer pin STRONG, it isn't a splitter it'll never have to drag the blade out of a block of wood by brute force. All the pin has to do is support the weight of the top die. If it weren't for the heat one wrap of duct tape would be more than strong enough.

I strongly recommend you make the die plates screw to the ram and anvil. Make ONE template with the holes the same size as the die plates. Make the ram and anvil die plates the same so you can exchange them. 

One last suggestion. Do NOT alter the splitting wedges so all you have to do is put them back on so you can sell a functional splitter when you discover not many people will pay as much for a home modified forging press. When the time comes you move up to a purpose built press, power hammer, etc. and can use the money more than a dust collector.

Frosty The Lucky.