Is this Really a Kohlswa???

[Joel K]

Hello fellow blacksmiths!

Came across this anvil for sale and need help identifying it.

Owner claims its a Kohlswa 517# anvil and it has markings that may match but it looks very different to me than images of other Kohlswa anvils out on google.  Any help is greatly appreciated!

Joel

PS trying to get images posted...

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Joel, glad to have you. Please don't post the same thing in multiple sections. We aren't going to answer it more quickly or often and it tends to irritate the Mods who have to delete extra posts

Looks like one to me, no counterfeiter I've ever heard of would age the stamped in name as shown on that one. Have you don't a rebound test to see if it's been damaged in a fire?

Kohlswa are cast Swedish steel and about as top shelf as anvils get and that looks to be in really good condition. Do a rebound test before buying it though!

Frosty The Lucky.

[TechnicusJoe]

Simple. 
The pictures don't match. 
The first one is a Kohlswa anvil of the earlier logo type. 
The other two pictures are pictures of a hand forged German anvil. 

Evidence: Look at the chamfer from the feet that run over the body and chamfer the body and till the transition to the horn. 
The Kohlswa anvil clearly does not have this. On the Kohlswa anvil the feet lines blend into the flat of the body of the Kohlswa anvil, with relatively sharp edges.
Whereas the German anvil has this long flowing chamfer from the feet over the body till the stepped transition of the horn. 

Texture doesn't match, color doesn't match and some other details. 

Whoever claims this is the same anvil is evidently mistaken, or not honest.  
 

[JHCC]

Good eye, TJ.

[BillyBones]

I am far from an anvil expert but shouldnt the hardy hole be on the heel of the anvil along with a pritchel hole? And should it not also have step next to the face on the horn?

 

[JHCC]

I am also no expert, but I believe that Kohlswa made a lot of anvils that followed the typical London pattern: with hardy and pritchel holes at the heel and with a flat step between the face and the horn. 

However, I've also seen photos of Kohlswa anvils in both north and south German styles, as well as in the French "pig" style with the hardy hole that exits out the side. Looks like they made anvils to match whatever people were buying in whatever markets they shipped to. 

[TechnicusJoe]

5 hours ago, BillyBones said:

I am far from an anvil expert but shouldnt the hardy hole be on the heel of the anvil along with a pritchel hole? And should it not also have step next to the face on the horn?

 

No, it should not. Not even on the London pattern anvil you speak of = table next to the face and hardie hole in the heel. 
"table next to the face and hardie hole in the heel."  This is however far from a London pattern definition, merely two features. 
There are many other anvil patterns, having one or both of these features. 

Every country has their own anvil styles (Yes, not just one pattern of anvil), with their own hole lay-out. The London Pattern is a common one, though I would say it is a group of anvil patterns with similar features. There are fatter, thinner, longer versions, with hardie hole and pritchle hole lay-outs as demanded by the company who ordered the anvil from the anvil manufacturers. There are French, North-, South German, Italian, Russian, etc. Patterns. 
Designs became standard, as they worked for many smiths. What doesn't work well or does not work at all, gets fased out.

Though there are no guidelines where hardie holes, pritchle holes or other features should be. Any pattern adopted as standard can be changed to the customers wishes. 
Or at least, this is how it was when anvil manufacturers still (hand) Forged the anvils and could easily make changes. 
It can however be discussed if the location of certain features such as hardie holes, pritchle holes, horns, shelves, upsetting blocks, etc., are located in the right place for the smith, depending on the type of products the smith needs to make AND if a feature doesn't inhibit another feature's function.  
Apart from that, anything is a go. 

I see this in many newly produced anvils, mashing various anvil pattern features together. Though, I can see that in functionality, it was not well considered. 
Features on old anvils are functional, they have a purpose. Iron was too expensive not too long ago to mash a funky looking anvil together. 
Some of these new anvils have features, that I would say are "on the wrong side". Of course they can be anywhere anyone wants, the customer pays for it after all.  

But having studied anvil patterns and the use of the features, to me. Some of these newly designed anvils look like cars with the driver facing the rear of the vehicle, with 5 speeds backwards, and 1 forward. Again, if anyone can do what they want.  
But from a design and usage point of view, some things are installed backwards or "wrong". 
 



 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

A very good synopsis of the different patterns of anvils. Thank you.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sails. ~ Semper Paratus

[Will Brouwers]

Technicus, could you give some examples of the new features on anvils that are not well considered?

[BillyBones]

That makes a lot of sense. If i made anvils i would not stick to just one design i would make what the customer wants as well. 

[TechnicusJoe]

On 5/19/2023 at 5:05 AM, Will Brouwers said:

Technicus, could you give some examples of the new features on anvils that are not well considered?

Here are a few. 

Having the side shelf in the same location as the hardie hole.
With this lay-out any hardie tool will obstruct a pass over the side shelf with the face. 
On the forged anvils and proper cast reproductions the side shelf is just before the hardie hole, so it can be used with hardie tools. 
The added benefit on the forged anvils is that with the side shelf located back slightly, it lands exactly on the forge weld of the horn to the body, reinforcing this weld. 
This is really favorable, and hence it was done intentionally. It has many benefits. 

Putting the breast on the near side of the anvil.
The breast is a far edge reinforcement, to be used to draw out stock on the edge of the anvil. 
On the near side will function, though it is easier to pull material ontop of the anvil, then to push it ontop of the anvil from the near side. 
Considering the striker does the bulk of the work, it benefits the striker to be able to well see how the stock is positioned on the edge. 
On the near side, this is not as easy to see. 

An unsupported breast. 
The breast is either forged back from the main body from anvil or forge welded on, with a forge welded on support under it, a "nose" or almost like an extra foot. 
Also for support for the far edge, against having the anvil wanting to rotate with heavy strikes on the far edge. 


The upsetting block on the near side of the anvil
The choice to have it on the far side, striker side of the anvil, is a better choice, than on the near side. 
Upsetting, particularly larger stock, will throw quite some hot scale/sparks towards the smith. 
Even with a long apron, tends to end up on, and in your shoes. 
On the far side, the upsetting block also works like a colonial "fifth foot", resisting the anvil from wobbling/rotating towards the striker. 
Try it out. It is easier to rock over an anvil on the side with just two feet, than the side with a colonial foot or upsetting block. 
And when you upset either alone or with a striker, the sparks don't land in your shoes. 

Really thinning out the waist of the anvil.
This makes the anvil work more like a shock absorber. 
The anvil can be narrow faced, but the rigidity then has to come from a wider waist (maintaining the narrow face).
Particularly with long skinny horns or heels. Which they can be. 
But there is a proportion, where the horn or heel maintains a proper taper, with which it can be skinny still.
If they taper too little, and are more like a bar, they also act like a shock absorber, instead of a support for your work. Or the waist needs to be thicker. 

A too hollow of a taper on a horn is also going to work like a shock absorber instead. 

Some have the features of the anvil on the opposite side of the anvil, not for a left handed person where it is mirrored. 
But partially a few features swapped, such as a hardie hole and upsetting block. 

Looking at the designs of the older anvils, they are laid out in such a way that you can use all parts pretty much at the same time. 
This is more efficient. No wasted time having to take out a hardie or other tool. Taking it out once or twice, fine. 
But if you have to do this 1000 times in a production run, that is time wasted 1000 times. 
Smiths made many of the same things, certainly if they were good at it - returning orders. 


This is what I find fascinating in the last generations of hand forged anvils. They understood incredibly well how form and function worked together, putting features, material and proportions in the right place, so the anvil worked for the smith. With so many applications, it gave birth to many patterns. 

Though... 
For the hobbyist, enthusiast or professional where forging is a side thing, it really doesn't matter so much. 
A block of steel will already suffice for the majority of work. 






 

[Will Brouwers]

Wow! Thank you for all of these examples!

[Frosty]

Thank you Joe, the details and reasons from a craftsman's point of view are so much more useful than a list of who, what, where and when. 

Frosty The Lucky.