Duster Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Hello all, I just finished building a 3 burner frosty t forge and every time I try to light it the flame jumps up into the T. Not sure what I'm doing wrong, I got it to run for a little bit but just once. I have one of those regulators like they have on BBQ's I'm not sure if that is correct. I'm using .30 mig tips and a 3/4" - 1" reducer. 20230218_223853.mp4 20230218_223815.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lary Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 I don't claim to be an expert, but you need a regulator that can be adjusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duster Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 Yea I wondered if that was the case. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Yep a BBQ regulator does not put out enough propane a 0-30 psi adjustable should work just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 I can see a couple of other potential problems in addition to the regulator which will have to be swapped out: Hard to tell how forge is insulated. Is that floor a steel plate? Any thermal breaks between the floor and the exterior of the forge? What is the crown made of? You have bell reducers as burner outlets. These shouldn't be needed inside the forge, and they certainly shouldn't project past the forge inner insulation liner You will likely have trouble with running three burners off a single 20# barbeque tank. At full fire you may see problems with freezing. It may be prudent to support the gas manifold from the forge frame. Less stress on the burner gas connection. White teflon tape is likely not gas rated. At least around here it is yellow. From the photo it looks like there is a large hole in the middle of your forge floor. What is that about? Pretty large size forge. You are going to go through propane quickly Doors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Just one more observation to throw in there: Your T's are all lined up with each other. If they are close enough they may compete for air to induce. If you turn them 90 degrees that shouldn't be an issue. It may or may not be an issue now, but if it is going to cause problems it will be when running at higher psi than you are using in those videos. It is fairly common for multiple burner forges to create some additional challenges. It's common for one burner to function well but other burners to show substandard performance in use. Small variations in construction and back pressure within the forge chamber can cause some frustrating scenarios. I'm fairly sure (as the others have mentioned) that your problem with the flame burning inside the mixing tube is due to low pressure. I think BBQ regulators are typically set around 1.5 to 2 psi. That's not enough to make most T burners function properly. I'm assuming this is just test firing and you still plan to add insulation and refractory material to create the flame face and keep the burner ends from protruding into the forge chamber. I don't know what you plan on using your forge for, but that thing looks like a well-built gas-guzzling beast to me. Long decorative bends and twists are about the only things I can think of that would require that much forge for a hobbyist. Most of us had to realign our thinking from "better to have it and not need it" overkill to "what's the smallest I can build this thing and still do what I want to do?" The up front construction cost pales in comparison to the long term fuel consumption costs of an overly large forge. Beyond that, propane forges that are unnecessarily large result in consistently reheating more steel than can be worked by hand before the stock needs to go back in. This can cause excess degradation of the steel - especially high carbon steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Latticino said: White teflon tape is likely not gas rated. At least around here it is yellow. This was true in the past, but I have seen ads for gas rated Teflon tape in yellow, white, and light blue colors in recent years. I would still go for yellow, but then I'm paranoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duster Posted February 25, 2023 Author Share Posted February 25, 2023 I missed these responses.. be busy playing with the forge. I did get it to run with an adjustable regulator but I was only able to get one that goes up to 20psi around here, I'll have to order a 30psi one. It runs pretty good for about 30 minutes then the front burner starts chuffing. On 2/20/2023 at 8:44 AM, Latticino said: You have bell reducers as burner outlets. These shouldn't be needed inside the forge, and they certainly shouldn't project past the forge inner insulation liner This is probably my issue now, they get red hot. I will remove them and see what happens. On 2/20/2023 at 8:44 AM, Latticino said: Hard to tell how forge is insulated. Is that floor a steel plate? Any thermal breaks between the floor and the exterior of the forge? What is the crown made of? Yes that is 1/4" steel plate. The top part sits on top of the bottom part so it is possible the heat could escape between the two but it would have to travel about 5" where it would be met with flat steel and the exterior stays decently cool. The upper part is lined with fire brick/refractory and then kao wool. The underside is lined with fire brick/refractory. On 2/20/2023 at 8:44 AM, Latticino said: You will likely have trouble with running three burners off a single 20# barbeque tank. I do have a 30lb tank. On 2/20/2023 at 8:44 AM, Latticino said: It may be prudent to support the gas manifold from the forge frame I am planning on doing that. Right I'm just using something temporary to support it. On 2/20/2023 at 8:44 AM, Latticino said: From the photo it looks like there is a large hole in the middle of your forge floor. What is that about? I designed the base to be a coal forged and then added the top. The plan is to cast a plug to go in there or I might just cover the floor in fire bricks. I'm planning on adding doors later, right now I'm just stacking up fire brick. I'll have to look into the Teflon tape. On 2/20/2023 at 10:28 AM, Buzzkill said: Your T's are all lined up with each other. If they are close enough they may compete for air to induce. If you turn them 90 degrees that shouldn't be an issue. Good call. If i continue having issues I will try that. On 2/20/2023 at 10:28 AM, Buzzkill said: I'm assuming this is just test firing and you still plan to add insulation and refractory material to create the flame face and keep the burner ends from protruding into the forge chamber. It was but I have been using it like that a bit lol as suggested I am going to remove the flares and hopefully that will help. On 2/20/2023 at 10:28 AM, Buzzkill said: I don't know what you plan on using your forge for, but that thing looks like a well-built gas-guzzling beast to me. Long decorative bends and twists are about the only things I can think of that would require that much forge for a hobbyist. Most of us had to realign our thinking from "better to have it and not need it" overkill to "what's the smallest I can build this thing and still do what I want to do?" Yes this was a case of "Better to have it" lol I am interested in making swords so that's why the length. I can already see it's more than necessary, I will probably make a smaller one later. I really appreciate all the responses! I will keep you posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 I have had a closer look at the near end burner; its gas orifice can only be be seen at an angle, but it looks to be very far from centered. I don't think it is going to work properly, and neither will the other two, if their gas orifices aren't centered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 On 2/24/2023 at 9:36 PM, Duster said: I am interested in making swords so that's why the length. The only times you want to heat the entire length of the blade on a sword are the heat treating processes. Even for those you can "pump" the blade in and out of the forge to obtain an even heat. Tempering would be a bit tricky that way, but generally speaking forges running naturally aspirated burners can't reliably be turned down and hold specific temperatures in the tempering range anyway. If you're forging using a hand hammer you'll only be able to work about 6 inches at a time before the stock needs to go back into the forge for reheating. Especially for a long, relatively thin blade you really don't want a lot of excessive heats that can degrade and/or decarburize the steel. The chuffing you're getting after 30 minutes or so is most likely due to the chilling/freezing of the propane tank. You are running 3 burners off a 30 lb tank. It is pretty much inevitable that you will see reduced pressure due to the temperature drop with that setup. You can get a bigger tank, link 2 or more tanks together, or place the bottom of your propane tank in a water bath to reduce that problem. Or you can construct a smaller forge that doesn't require that many burners and therefore that level of fuel consumption. A lot of us had to learn that lesson the hard way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Ditto on the length issue; heating more than can be worked in one go causes decarburization, grain growth and scale losses in the areas hot but not being worked so making a long forge for sword forging makes for a worse sword! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Buzzkill said: The chuffing you're getting after 30 minutes or so is most likely due to the chilling/freezing of the propane tank Chuffing can also be caused by preignition inside the burner mixing chamber. If the burner gets too hot from being inside the forge chamber or radiant heat from the forge during "turn-down" from high fire to low (less fuel air mixture in mixing tube = less localized cooling effect for the burner), that flame front can move right into the mixing tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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