gewoon ik Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Gents and ladies I'm fairly new to blacksmithing. I follow a course with a blacksmith to become a blacksmith. But now the first year is finished and during the break I still want to practice making steel hot and shaping it into something. I want to make smallish things : hooks, firepokers, bottle-openers, tools to make those thinks (so tongs and chisels and ...) small scrolls (i have a trivet made out of 3 scrolls that I like and some friends as well) I have a small workshop I rent (cheap). The building is an old stable used for chickens. The building is used and cleaned over 15 years ago and transformed into a workshop. The ventilators are still in and half of them are working, so ventilation is not a problem. Even without the ventilators running, it is drafty. My first idea was cheap so a coalforge. But I cannot install a chimney (not my building). My lot is also at the end of the building. Rolling my equipment 50m to the big entrance to put my forge outside is something I will do max 5 times and than can't be bothered with. Also no shelter outside and I cannot leave my equipment outside or close to the door. No shelter is a biggie, Belgium normally has a lot of rain, I'm made out of sugar so I melt in the rain. Second idea or the idea I have now. Gasforge. But I'm a beginner. So no need for a expensive forge. Don't have the money and also pearls for the pigs. And I want a readymade to start with. To make one, I really want to do, but for now, I want to buy one. Take it out of the box, do minimal things with it and start forging. I don't want to look in 20+ different sites for the materials and ordering them and have the forge ready by the end of the summer or the start of my lessons. So I see 2 choices. Devil Forge DFSW. + cheap (160 euros) + on stock + comes with rigidiger for the isolation + comes with firebrick, to be used as forgebotom (not ideal according the information i find here, but good for closing up the back) + good burner + claim 1370°C (or forgingheat) - small 150 mm x 120 mm x 250 mm (w x h x l) -thin insulation : 1" - no refractory or good bottom (see remark firebrick) so some work needs to be done - open on front and back, so heatwaste Becma neo 2 + big 195 mm x 165 mm x 265 mm (w x h x l) + doors on front and back. Frontdoor with hole for smaller stock + more insulation : 30 mm ceramic fiberboard (or 5mm more than the 1" of the devil) and comes with firebrick as bottom and ready to use. - more expensive (double of the above or 365 euro) - burner has no choke (Nils Ögren had one and tells me that) so gaspressure is the only variable you can play with - they claim only 1200°C (or no forgingheat) Are there people around who have experience with one or both forges? Am I missing an other forge in my (short) list that is better? My location is in my profile, but to be clear (and to make it simple all info in one post). i live in the EU, more specific Belgium even more specific around Ghent. So the fittings that are to be used needs to be found easely here and need to fit the gasbottles (DIN connection). I don't want to wait a couple of weeks for a special couplingpiece just to connect bottle to burner. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 The thread about the Mr Volcano is a good one, although I don't know if it is available shipped to Belgium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblin_Smithy Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Always welcome to drop by my place and check out my propane forge. It's a Devil Forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Considering the price difference, you will probably get a better value in the Devil's Forge. Also, the box forge has better insulation, but the D.F. has a much better metal structure, and is easily improvable. The box forge is not going to suffer changes well; it has a better burner, but that is the easiest part of A D.F. to upgrade later on. Finally I definitely do not approve of that overheating door on the box forge; you can expect that to degrade over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewoon ik Posted June 19, 2022 Author Share Posted June 19, 2022 Goblin smithy, i send you pm. Have had several phones and numbers and lost your number. Mikey if i understand you say go for devil forge. Don't completly understand your response, but could me as well. It is a lot cheaper. I can buy a lot of gas for the difference in price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 One of the club members brought his brand new Devil's Forge to the meeting yesterday and I got to check it out in person. The heavy split firebrick floor is a loser, you can't even slide it close enough to the burner side to prevent the flame from blowing into the space. Minor things, easily corrected. I'd saw a K26 down the center, bevel the edge to match the sidewall and the flame would circulate properly and not waste so much fuel heating heavy firebrick. Or my real preference would be to lay about 3/8" or less of Kastolite 30 and kiln wash it with Plistex. Heck, I could lay another 1" of Kaowool, rigidize and plaster it with Kastolite and have more volume, all of it useable. I think it's a good $80, another $20 and it's an excellent $100 forge. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Frosty, I agree with your views. But, as you say, they are minor matters. Well not so minor with someone looking for turn-key performance, but I don't look for that in a budget forge. I look for what will be left to deal with in the long term; and that is all about the forge shell, design, and burner. gewoon ik, As I note above; what is the most permanent features in a forge, is what everyone is really paying for. The design, and shell are permanent. Insulation, etc., inside the forge are all consumables. Then we come to the burner, and the one on the box forge is superior to the one on the D. F. however, the D.F. burner is easily changed out for a high powered homemade burner, such as are discussed at length on this forum. The box forge burner is a good design, but would be a real drag to attempt to up grade. The D.F. forge is a tunnel design, which I heavily favor. The box forge can hold larger pieces; the smaller the forge the greater that advantage; I don't like the way its door is designed; it is likely to suffer heat damage. However, the door can be changed out for a better design. Either forge will give your moneys worth. The box forge just takes more of it. Since, most blacksmiths who starts out with a small forge (which I totally approve of) will end up buying or building a larger forge within a year or two, how much money does he want to invest on the first forge? Yes, getting your moneys worth is the primary goal. But how much you save towards an inevitable second forge, is kind of important too, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Is there a window near your end? Easy to run a chimney through a window and then up. My chimney just goes through a hole in the wall. Remember "Too much ventilation is just barely enough for a propane forge!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewoon ik Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 On 6/24/2022 at 12:02 AM, ThomasPowers said: Is there a window near your end? Easy to run a chimney through a window and then up. My chimney just goes through a hole in the wall. Remember "Too much ventilation is just barely enough for a propane forge!" No, only small ventilation flaps, 1000x150 mm (lxw) but the ceiling is low, max 2m and the top of the flap is 10cm underneed the ceiling. And ceiling is insulated with pur pannels (the yellow foam). Burns easy. (The stuff burns at 80C or 176F, gives of toxic fumes and is almost impossible to put out) Long story short. I tought about it, even calculated the rectancle to put thru the flap. But i am scared of the low ceiling with the flammable isolation. Also dust inside. Some store cars there (perfect location, absolutly moldfree, moisture- and thempcontrolled cleanroom *insert sarcastic smiley*) so i don't want to cover them in coaldust, i cover them already with dust from my welding and grinding i do there Where i want to put the gasforge the ceiling is 2,5m heigh so makes a difference in my head. But just to be curious. Outside the window, the plan in my head was to stick a rectancle outside and on top make a tube go up, 1 m higher than the top of the roof so i needed 3m vertikal up. I fergot. Thanks for the tought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 6 feet off the ground I can generally place my had against my coal forge's chimney and hold it there; the warmth helps my arthritis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewoon ik Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 Ha. It is a lot cooler than I thought. I have to check how to remove part of the wooden flaps than. And thank because I am not a overthinking type of person in the first place. At this speed by october I made up my mind, right after the lessons starts again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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