Where did it come from?

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Hello everyone, ive got an odd and possibly funny question,

every one has heard the jokes

( in days of old when knights were bold…) 

sometimes the jokes aren’t suitable for mixed company and sometimes they are clean and funny

but my question is where did the joke come from? Who started it? Was it part of a real poem? 

I tried googling it and of course got hundreds of hits telling the joke, but I was unable to find the origins 

I was hoping one of y’all gurus of random knowledge and facts might know were it came from? Lol 
 

 

[ThomasPowers]

I've  read a few and the earliest I would put it is 19th century from word choice and concepts. (For example;  "Rifle: portable firearm having a barrel or barrels with a spirally grooved bore," by 1775"

There was a play around the turn of the 19/20 century "when knights were bold" and Edgar Allan Poe wrote a poem "Eldorado" that the scansion looks like it could be easily modified for scurrilous uses:  Published April 1849

 But he grew old—

   This knight so bold—   

And o’er his heart a shadow—   

   Fell as he found

   No spot of ground

That looked like Eldorado.

[JHCC]

1 hour ago, ThomasPowers said:

spirally grooved bore

I've been called that once or twice.

[ThomasPowers]

John; I have been reading "Two Years Before the Mast", Dana and "Life in California before the Gold Discovery", Bidwell.  They both are from around the same time and it's interesting to see how the "Sailor's tale"  matches up with the "Landsman's tale."

I've been called groovy before; but I don't think that is the same...

[JHCC]

I've not read Two Years Before the Mast, but I have stood next to the grave of the author's father.

[ThomasPowers]

Did you do it?  I've read several "trip" books now.  "The Cruise of the Catchalot"  was a very different take on a whale of a story compared to "Call me Ishmael"; though Moby Dick did have that nice blacksmithing scene in it when they are forging the harpoons.

[George N. M.]

The history of humor is a very interesting topic.  There is an ongoing debate about what is funny to every human and what is funny dependent on culture, maturity, etc..  

The authorship of jokes is usually obscure and some are pretty ancient.  Joke books have been around for a long time including Joe Miller's Joke Book (1738) and the Roman Philogelos.  Here is a link to a good article in The Guardian about the history of humor and jokes: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jun/28/history-laughter-roman-jokes-mary-beard

I think many jokes are either spontaneous and many are modifications of earlier gags, e.g. "a Centurion, a philosopher, and a slave walk into a tavern in Pompeii . . ."  Sometimes you may be able to trace a particular joke to a particular movie, TV or radio show, or, nowadays, a web site but most of them have been and will be anonymous or lost in the mists of time.

Someone else may have more insights.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[JHCC]

Pretty much anything by Mary Beard is worth reading. 

16 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Moby Dick did have that nice blacksmithing scene in it when they are forging the harpoons.

Right up until the heat treatment section, which doesn't take into account the necessary volume of quenchant:

Quote

Fashioned at last into an arrowy shape, and welded by Perth to the shank, the steel soon pointed the end of the iron; and as the blacksmith was about giving the barbs their final heat, prior to tempering them, he cried to Ahab to place the water-cask near.

“No, no- no water for that; I want it of the true death-temper. Ahoy, there! Tashtego, Queequeg, Daggoo! What say ye, pagans! Will ye give me as much blood as will cover this barb?” holding it high up. A cluster of dark nods replied, Yes. Three punctures were made in the heathen flesh, and the White Whale’s barbs were then tempered.

“Ego non baptizo te in nomine patris, sed in nomine diaboli!” deliriously howled Ahab, as the malignant iron scorchingly devoured the baptismal blood.

(For the non-classicists of our number, the Latin means "I do not baptize you in the name of the Father, but in the name of the devil!")

[Purple Bullet]

Hmmm, so this was the temper, not the quench? He only needed enough blood to check the color run. Probably dark straw at the edge and deep purple at the shank. 

[ThomasPowers]

No; at that time period "tempering" referred to the entire heat treat process to harden and draw the temper.  This was often done as one step using the residual heat to draw temper on a hardened item.  Not a great idea for tricky items; but it did result in a differential hardening/differential tempering when it worked!

Funny that seawater would have made a better quenchant than their drinking water. (And would be quite similar to blood.)

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

On 12/9/2021 at 1:09 PM, ThomasPowers said:

But he grew old—

   This knight so bold—   

And o’er his heart a shadow—   

   Fell as he found

   No spot of ground

That looked like Eldorado.

Thanks Thomas! that does kinda sound similar,

also I looked that poem up an read it all an I really liked it! Thanks for sharing