firegnome Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Well I would like to do this the hard way. I need to make a screw/threaded rod with out a tap and dye. I think the way to do it is to make a top and bottom fuller that has the threads cut into it and to heat the rod forming and twisting and forming as you go. This will take many heats as it is for a cider press I wish to build from scratch. If you have any ideas or ways to do this please let me know. Thank you Firegnome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 (edited) have you seen bp 60 on vise repair as it shows how these old screw threads were repaired it suggest a way to make them Edited August 19, 2008 by jimbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 I think you should investigate how they *did* do it in the old days! Moxon's "Mechanicks Exercises" mentions both die plates and filing out screws. Printed in 1703, but a lot of the info was really from the mid 1600's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug C Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Great BP. I always wondered how this was done. Might be fun to try and make my own vise once I am retired and have lots of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDJ Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 RE: BP60 A quick question on attaching the threads to the inside of the pipe. Would the threads hold better if you cut the pipe and threads in 1/2 length wise then forge welded the thread pieces in place and re welded the halves together? Would take a special shaped punch to hold the thread piece and punch it into the pipe after heating to welding temp but a good forge welder could do it i bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Thomas might have a better way for the inside thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 (edited) Forge brazing would probably work better than forge welding. At welding heat steel is very soft and easily deformed. Deformed screw threads are an exercise in frustration. You would need special swages to hold the outer shell cylindrical and weld with a wooden hammer and still have problems joining the two halves and having to hone or recut the threads. Perhaps you could look into how rifling was done using hand powered equipment? Also in one 19th century smithing text they mention casting a babbit "nut" around the sooted screw threads to repair a vise---I may have to go that route with my student's vise as I have a threaded shaft on the scrap pile but no nut for it. Edited August 19, 2008 by ThomasPowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awalker Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Forge braze a spiral of 1/8" square rod in a spiral around a round rod. Then pour babbit into the female side with the new screw in there. That is the simplified version of it. I would just order an acme screw and couple of nuts off Mcmasters site and fab from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nett Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 I would order the screw and nut, too. Especially if I intended to process any apples this season. There is plenty of work involved in making the rest of the press to keep oneself busy; I see no point in bogging down on the first task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 your only going to need a couple of threads to hold ...whith that in mind the nut cut in half then tig weld the thread in place then weld up the side ... on another not look for and old office chair with the center screw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jura T Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Sorry, can't help you with the hard way, but if you need to get it working for this season, how about using a bottle jack? Have you done a grinder already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 I think you should investigate how they *did* do it in the old days! Moxon's "Mechanicks Exercises" mentions both die plates and filing out screws. Printed in 1703, but a lot of the info was really from the mid 1600's. Thomas I can see a screw plate working for most threads but just how did they make the inside square threads? I've done some looking on the web their just not much information ...the male thread you could file it out but the female thats a different story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trying-it Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 I think you should investigate how they *did* do it in the old days! Moxon's "Mechanicks Exercises" mentions both die plates and filing out screws. Printed in 1703, but a lot of the info was really from the mid 1600's. How far back in "the old days"? Excerpt from: machine tool: Definition from Answers.com "During the 16th century, the art of lathe making advanced, and the lathe was adapted for making screws. Although early screws were used as fasteners, the application of screws for delicate adjustments was far more important. This use of screw adjustors ensured the accuracy of the machine parts produced. In addition to screw making, various adaptations of lathes throughout the 17th century using cams and patterns enabled the wood lathe to cut complicated figures, not just circles with different radii." ************ Using a common nut & bolt: Grind several grooves inside the nut and you have a thread chaser for a bolt. Grind several grooves on the outside of the bolt and you have a thread chaser for a nut. Both work great for restoring rusted or dinged up threads. A little more precise grinding and profiling within those grooves and you have created a thread cutting tap and die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasper77 Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Thomas I can see a screw plate working for most threads but just how did they make the inside square threads? I've done some looking on the web their just not much information ...the male thread you could file it out but the female thats a different story As I understand it you make the screw shaft first. Then take the small square rod and wrap it down your screw shaft. Then take that and Braze it into a tube and theres you male and female ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfshieldrx Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 One of Roy Underhill's books has info on making "big" threads in wood and I think one of the Foxfire books do too. I don't remember if there was any info on metal threads. I am on my lunch break at work now but will look at my library when I get home. bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) All Thread Rod is available at least up to 2 inches diameter. Can that be used as a screw for a cider press? We have apple trees and a press would be very handy.All Thread Rod | Portland Bolt Edited November 10, 2008 by UnicornForge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 You probably want something with a coarser thread so it advance and retracts faster. companise like MSC sell various coarse threaded rod and nuts to go with them. Have you looked at converting a trash masher? My parent's have one in their kitchen that has most of what a cider press needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I found some plans for a cider press at Mother Earth News web site by Googling on cider press: How to Build a Cider Press Their plans call for a threaded rod at least 22" long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfshieldrx Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Talk about coincidence! Got home yesterday and Roy Underhill's latest book had arrived. I had pre-ordered it a couple of months ago, and had actually forgot about it. Anyway, the book is "The Woodwright's Guide" and it has a whole section on making wooden screws...BIG wooden screws...like on a vise, or maybe a cider press? I know this is a blacksmith site, and you seem to be leaning toward large metal screws, but I have seen cider presses with wooden screws. Just a thought...bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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