ThomasPowers Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 One aspect of briquettes is size. The larger the size your fuel is the less the proportional surface is that's burning. In Knifemaking where we *want* to have a reducing fire having large air gaps and lower ammounts burning does not help. (In "The Mastery and Uses of Fire in Antiquity" Rehder mentions that to get a reducing atmosphere in a bloomery you need to go up over 12 times the mean diameter of the fuel size to be sure you are in a reducing zone, now that is for a bloomery with a lot more air being pushed into it but just think how much fuel you would have to stack in your forge to get there with briquettes.) The problem with charcoal dust is that it just blows out of the forge as forge fleas that will bite any exposed skin... Coal dust you can mix with water and let it coke up into large chunks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNixon1108 Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 (edited) I built this same forge but I used a different mix for the adobe. I don't remember it exactly but you can find it on backyard metal casting. Sand, clay, portland cement and perlite. I even made bricks out of this mix and sit them on top of the forge when I need to melt small quantities of al for casting. You will be surprised how light the bricks are and the fire does not seem to touch them. I use homemade charcoal in mine but have used lump and briquettes. Lump seems to work best. Edited August 19, 2008 by JNixon1108 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollhammer Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 JNixon1108: I use that same recipe for all of my refractory, and it works really well. I made a brick mold and used it to make all the bricks for my brick-pile gasser. Its also the table top for my coal forge that I'm making now. Its an amazing recipe...cheap too! Mickey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNixon1108 Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 One thing I did find out is instead of kitty litter you can use pond sealer for the clay. They are both bentonite but the pond sealer is already a very fine powder. Its a little more cost but well worth it I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsider Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Wow...what a ton of great and helpful info, i like the pearlite idea since i have a bit of that from some paint jobs i did a while ago and then making fire brick out of them...what a great idea and would have been a great use for the extra material i had from the forge build. As well i have used the lump charcoal both cowboy and Royal Oak and they are no remarkable differences between the two that i have ever noticed, of course i have only used them for my smoker not for any forge work..........yet I bet i could make the fire brick in a semi-circle to arch across the top of my forge to retain more heat in my fire...sound like a good idea...worth doing or not...any thoughts on the idea? Oh and i'll have to see about the pool sealer clay stuff for the bricks for smaller batches depending on cost, sounds like a good deal. Well thx everybody for great ideas and info here and the good comments on my forge and i'll be sure to post up the progress of the forge and the life it is taking and with pix, pix are just the way to go in explaining things. catch ya'll later! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 They also sell clay as a feed additive for livestock. Check a local feedstore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbalist Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 (edited) Straw in the mud (clay) will help prevent cracking, but don't use too much. Perhaps you could also use Glass Fibres for reinforcement? You can buy tubs of chopped strands at Glass fibre suppliers: http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/store/chopped-strands-p-87.html Vic. Edited August 19, 2008 by Arbalist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capd323 Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Do you have to use just charcoal in that forge or could you use regular coal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsider Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Perhaps you could also use Glass Fibres for reinforcement? You can buy tubs of chopped strands at Glass fibre suppliers: 1 Kg Chopped Strands - 13 mm East Coast Fibreglass Supplies Vic. point well taken and i dont see why that wouldnt be a good idea, just not sure on how the fibers would stand in the forge heat environment but other than that i dunno. oh and any idea what 4.45 pounds is in US dollar and stop laughing i know our dollar in sucking pond water these days here's a link on the adobe forge deal using a different type of bonding substance....haahaahaa enjoy..........http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/building-forge-3016/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsider Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) here's a pretty good page on adobe for stoves/ovens that i figured i'd share since it's defiantly rather applicable to this thread here and will use this for my fire bricks and heck i might make another one just for giggles. Hope ya'll find it useful! well the hyper link didnt work so here's the URL that i found this at, it's .doc file and a little to long form me to copy and repost here since i dont know if thats cool here either but if your interested in this defiantly worth a gander, it's really good info on the adobe refractory.http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:HFha3SWHGe4J:mha-net.org/msb/research/BP49%25202003%2520insulative%2520ceramics.doc+insulative+ceramics+for+improved+cooking+stoves&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us Edited August 20, 2008 by outsider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverDamForge Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 point well taken and i dont see why that wouldnt be a good idea, just not sure on how the fibers would stand in the forge heat environment but other than that i dunno. oh and any idea what 4.45 pounds is in US dollar and stop laughing i know our dollar in sucking pond water these days here's a link on the adobe forge deal using a different type of bonding substance....haahaahaa enjoy..........http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/building-forge-3016/ If you're getting to a temp to melt glass the clay will already be fused. Really, the straw just needs to hold things until the clay dries, to help prevent large cracks. Glass would be unnessecary expense IMO. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsider Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 OK folks the tub forge finally dried and then was resurfaced and I just lit the first fire, i'll have the pix for ya'll tomorrow sometime. Everything went well and even tossed a cpl pieces of steel in to see what kinda heat i could get with the little bit of charcoal and charcoal brickettes, i had a great fire in the forge and no real sparking to speak of, i am quiet happy with my forge. So do we name forges? anvils? hammers? I know i name all my firearms and my trucks so it kinda seems right, huh? well tomorrow will be the pix, catch ya'll then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Ya mean like my Peter Wright "Pete" or my Hay Budden " Buddy" Naw only crazy people name tools, LOL!!!! Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverDamForge Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 (edited) A lot of people call their hammer "Mjolnir" after Thor's hammer. I want to see them come back when thrown... My gasifier forge is "The Dragon's Cave" Good Luck! Edited August 28, 2008 by BeaverDamForge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbalist Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 tomorrow will be the pix, catch ya'll then! Look forward to seeing them! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draper84 Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 chalk this up for the worst thread hijack ever!!! all in good fun i'll never stop the flow of good information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsider Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 here ya go, a cpl of the pix for now i gotta get some sleep here. I'll pop a few more on tomorrow or today whatever...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 BTW anybody else have a copy of the Pyromaniacs Cookbook? (It's really a cookbook!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbalist Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I wonder what I can do with these bits? Apart from a few more bits I need some spare time to put something together The cat litter is Fullers Earth and by sheer luck the hot air gun is a snug fit in the end of the pipe! Vic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Shoot take a shovel and dig a hole and slip the pipe down so one end is in the bottom of the hole and you're good to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDJ Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 ''take a shovel and dig a hole and slip the pipe down so one end is in the bottom of the hole'' If I can't get a ''Fire pot'' from standard Iron's scrap yard tonight I may just try that! 30 more min till I can go find out ... LOL I'm getting very restless at work today! Have already taken off to get some of the parts at lunch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Lose the kitty litter. You'll have better luck with damp dirt, sand and a bit of portland cement. Better yet buy some fire clay from the local concrete plant, heating and furnace supplier or ceramic supplier. (in order of increasing price) Bentonite does a really poor job of firing, will always be hydrophillic, meaning it will absorb all the water it comes in contact with. It's crummy stuff at the best of times. I don't know how the idea that kitty litter was a good clay for lining a forge came about, probably someone knew just enough to put fire CLAY and bentonite CLAY together in his/er head and think they're interchangeable. They aren't. Oh sure, you can MAKE it work but it's a far cry from having something that works properly let alone well. Fire clay may cost you a little more, (I can get 50lbs for less than 40lbs of kitty litter but that's here) but your results will be well worth it. 50lbs of fire clay will make several forges like the one above. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbalist Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Thanks a lot for that Frosty. I've done several searches for Fireclay but haven't found anywhere here in England that sells it Lots of historical references to how it's been mined here for over a thousand years, but no suppliers! :confused: I'll keep looking. About the only readily available product is ready mixed Fire Cement which obviously isn't the same stuff. I don't envy many people but when it comes to getting tools/materials you guys in the US have it made. Thanks again, Vic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 (edited) Hmmmm. That's just plain weird. Have you tried a mason's supply or how about asking a mason. You may have to be a guild member to buy or something, we have protected trades here though not many. Brickmakers should be able to help you, especially if they make fire brick. A foundry should be able to help you too. Failing those I'd consider buying commercial castable or rammable refractory. Failing that, I'd have to start looking at river banks. I know I'd try a lot of things before using bentonite. Good luck. Frosty P.S. I did a little searching, it can be funny how something will show up for someone halfway around the world when it won't for folk in the neighborhood. As of April of this year guys were getting fireclay here. http://www.yrpl.com/ And one more. (quoting from another list, hoping I don't get in trouble) "I've also found fire clay at Travis Perkins. HEPWORTH FIRECLAY 25KG BAG Y137 (867166) for Edited August 30, 2008 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petersenj20 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) I think this forge was designed to be cheap, easy, and efficient. Hence the use of lump charcoal. You can make it in a hole or BBQ it's so easy. I have used lump and briquettes to melt aluminum and brass in my furnace. They both work but the briquettes take longer and throw a mess of ash. I have melted brass with wood. It's all possible. My understanding of the Perlite mixes is that it melts out and leaves air pockets that insulate. Red clay, fireclay, modeling clay should all work to one degree or another. Perlite seems to be the new age of homemade mixes. My furnace is made of 1 part fireclay, 1 part sand, and 1 part grog (crushed firebricks/cintered clay). It's not indestructible but it works. As do all these other mixes. I live in Georgia and have the red clay to end all red clay. I just made a batch of lump. Maybe an experiment is in order. Dig a hole, lay a pipe, pour the charcoal on and see what comes of it. I found a railroad spike in the middle of the road I been meaning to do something with. The long weekend would be good. Edited August 31, 2008 by petersenj20 Removed redundance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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