dntfxr Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 ...and I found this!102 RR spikes marked HC! :cool:Several other pieces too. The large pin in the second pic I'm hoping will be a carbon type steel.The tongs type things are my first creation (not from rr spike,just square bar). Oh yeah, the last pic is my anvil turned buisness end up. I think I'm gonna go ahead and stick it in a bucket of concrete when I get back from vacation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 BTW they were obtained legally in case you wondered. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Hey dntfxr, I'm in East TEXAS (Longview/Hallsville off I-20) 60 miles west of Shreveport, How close are you? BTW, good score on the material. Nice pair of tongs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 Thanks! I'm just east on I-20, about 150 miles to Monroe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Here's hoping it's HC too but it's most likely mild to middling carbon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 HC RR spikes are the low end of med C. They're intended to be tough not hard. They make good tongs as they're springier than mild but won't over harden with repeated quenching from red. Nice tongs and a good score. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Frosty; I was referring to the large piece of round stock as in "The large pin in the second pic I'm hoping will be a carbon type steel.". I should have been clearer. The spec for HC spikes is 27 points carbon so they are actually just below the low end for medium carbon steel that being 30 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 HC RR spikes are the low end of med C. They're intended to be tough not hard. They make good tongs as they're springier than mild but won't over harden with repeated quenching from red. Nice tongs and a good score. Frosty Thanks! I knew they had more carbon than the old spikes, but was wondering how they compare to mild.I'll make another heavy duty pair with the spikes. Anyone know the specs on the tie plate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 Here's hoping it's HC too but it's most likely mild to middling carbon. Yeah, it has one end that looks to be twisted off verses sheared, so maybe its some kind of shaft.?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Hmm I had a piece that looked like that pin except that it had a 90 deg bend in the upper section. Also found near a RR track and I wondered if it had been used to couple two rr cars together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Frosty; I was referring to the large piece of round stock as in "The large pin in the second pic I'm hoping will be a carbon type steel.". I should have been clearer. The spec for HC spikes is 27 points carbon so they are actually just below the low end for medium carbon steel that being 30 points. I hadn't looked at the pin, my connection was running painfully slowly this morning. Looks like a pretty standard equipment pin and probably in the grade 5 bolt range. Not knowing what it's for makes it tough to speculate though, spark testing would help. I've seen specs for HC RR spikes as high as 40pts but that's still on the border. Good tough steel that makes good handles and light duty pry bars and the like. I have a bunch myself. Track clips are medium C and good for small hammers, repousse stakes and other springy need tools. They make okay punches and good drifts. The track plate is really handy for mounting RR rail anvils on, decent chisel plates and good stake holders for RR spike stakes. Lots of good steel on the line. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Frosty if you get the chance could you send me the cite for HC spikes being as high as 40? I've been working off this one: American Railway Engineering Association's Specifications for Soft-Steel Track Spikes. Original document, 1926, revised last in 1968 Two classes of track spikes are given specifications, both low carbon and high carbon. Two sizes of track spike are identified, one of 5/8 inch square shaft and one of 9/16 inch. Page 5-2-1. "A low carbon track spike will not contain greater than 0.12% carbon nor greater than 0.20% copper. Page 5-2-2. Section 6a. Bending properties: The body of a full size finished spike shall stand being bent cold through 180 degrees flat on itself without cracking on the outside portion of the bent portion. Page 5-2-2 Section 11. Marking. A letter or brand indicating the manufacturer shall be pressed on the head of each spike while it is being formed. When copper is specified, the letters "CU" shall be added. Page 5-2-3: Specifications for high carbon steel track spikes 1968. Carbon not greater than 0.30%, nor greater than 0.20% copper. Page 5-2-4. Section 6a. Bending properties: The body of a full size finished spike shall stand being bent cold through 120 degrees around a pin, the diameter of which is not greater than the thickness of the spike without cracking on the outside portion of the bent portion. Page 5-2-5 Section 11. Marking: A letter or brand indicating manufacturer and also the letters "HC" indicating high carbon, shall be pressed on the head of each spike while it is being formed. When copper is specified, the letters "CU" shall be added." And I'd love to update my RR steel file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted August 5, 2008 Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 Ok so the S shaped symbol I guess represents the manufacturer. I also did a spark test and the pin seems to spark the same as the spikes. The small section of track sparked a good bit more than both. The plate must be a different alloy or very little carbon as it had almost no splitting sparks. Anyway thanks for the help and suggestions, I'll put them to good use! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Sorry Thomas I read it years ago doing a web search for something else. Even then it was on a chart of found steel compositions and may have been in error. Heck, maybe it's my memory. I've looked but never located it again. It was a several page list and I wanted a copy of it for IDing salvage. Maybe it was taken down, or is simply parked on a dead site or. . . ? Sorry, you can write this one off as a SmithMyth, hearsay(readsay?) or whatever but it's definitely unsupported. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 We all know that those "lists" tend toward the myth---typical example is that someone reads in Machinerys handbook that S5 would be a good steel for a jackhammer bit and so it would be; but it's so expensive that all the manufacturers tend to use a plain medium carbon steel instead. What goes on the list? Jackhammer bits----S5. (Back a number of years an on another website there was a fellow arguring that the bits were all high alloy steel until finally an old industrial smith spoke up who had resharpened over a million jackhammer bits---was his daily job for decades who mentioned in all that time he had only see a handful of high alloy bits.) This is why I have been trying to document specific information that can be verrified on scrap items and even then I wouldn't guarentee that two pieces were made from the same alloy! TEST EVERYTHING! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcraigl Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Frosty, Are the candycane shaped pieces what you are calling "track clips"? dntfxr, the candycane shaped pieces (possibly called track clips) are hard and tough. We've broken one down on a power hammer to be included in a pattern welded billet. Even with a power hammer they were pretty gnarly to forge. It was then stacked with L6 and pallet strapping and you can see in the photos that it didn't "forge down" nearly as much as the other steels did. I haven't made anything else from it, 'cause I don't have a power hammer at home shop and don't want to mess with it by hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 From Matt B on Anvilfire 08/08/2007 12:10:21 EDT As Jock at Anvilfire has said no text or photos from Anvilfire can be used anywhere, I am forced to remove the quote. You can of course go to the time stamp listed above and read the post. The information is that 1040 to 1060 is todays specs for rail anchors. And they seem very hard under the hammer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I used to have a better link to a picture of what I've been calling a rail clip, here they're called a rail anchor. Top row, left and center is what I find and the center one is specifically what I'm talking about.Rail Anchors and Tie Plates for used in Railroads, Cranes, Mines, and Tunnelling Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted August 6, 2008 Author Share Posted August 6, 2008 That's good info,thanks! That forge welded piece looks very cool, I've never seen anything like it. What did you make out of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Sorry Thomas I read it years ago doing a web search for something else. Even then it was on a chart of found steel compositions and may have been in error. Heck, maybe it's my memory. I've looked but never located it again. It was a several page list and I wanted a copy of it for IDing salvage. Maybe it was taken down, or is simply parked on a dead site or. . . ? Sorry, you can write this one off as a SmithMyth, hearsay(readsay?) or whatever but it's definitely unsupported. Frosty Hi Frosty. I think I saw something like this on the web, set a bookmark for it, and was unable to find it again. It was a tutorial on how to make railroad spike knives, and I seem to recall it was by Tai Goo. He recommends collecting several spikes and spark testing them *next to each other*. I would also recommend a 20 point and a 50 point simple carbon steel sample to border them with. Yes, I did find a 40 point spike, but only one. It is not worth going through all those spikes. Especially with fairly inexpensive steel available new online these days. I am not talking about buying O-1 at Orchard Supply Hardware for $30 for a small 3 foot stick. They do sell it in some stores though. If you are willing to break them down, those rail clips are pretty good stuff, about 50 points. They are difficult, unless you have a striker and good judgment of heat. One of my friends had a tool he made from a rail clip catastrophically fail on him. I ground a piece open and found cracks at the bend he straightened. Dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_sandy_creek_forge Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Back to that "pin we are hoping is HC" I too have something similar, also found near RR, also with the hole cross drilled in one end, but mine is sheared off a bit shorter. I too was assuming hitch pin or king pin of somesort or another. Mine sparked as pretty high carbon. Can't say how it forged as I still haven't found a project where I ABSOLUTELY have the need to hammer out 2" round by hand -Aaron @ the SCF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Aaron, the correct method is to let all the swordmaker wannabees whale on it with sledges till they give up; after 3 or 4 of them it will be sized where you can use it without too much effort. Evil Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted August 7, 2008 Author Share Posted August 7, 2008 LOL! Let me know what you find out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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