Tong steel

[Olorin]

Hey everyone. I am a beginner blacksmith and I am having some difficulty finding steel to make tongs. I live in a medium-sized town and don't have a lot of places that sell steel besides industrial suppliers and Princess Auto. Are there any types of metals I can use from auto-wreckers or scrap yards to make tongs with? Also what size and shape of stock I might need to start.

Thanks!

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Olorin, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many members live within visiting distance.

Auto wreckers or roadsides. Coil spring with 1/2" dia. wire size works nicely. Spring can be forged thin for lighter tongs that are still springy enough to hold well. The downside is being medium high carbon steel, it takes more force to forge and if you let your tongs get too hot, say red and toss them in water to cool they become brittle. When they get hot toss them on the floor to cool slowly and they're good. 

for general projects I highly recommend you go to one of the commercial suppliers and buy a stick (21' legth) of mild hot rolled steel. I start folk with 3/8" sq Hr. it has enough mass to stay hot for a while but isn't so heavy it takes a lot of time to finish a project. 1/2" rnd and 3/8" sq. are about the same amount of steel per inch of length. 1/2" square is quite a bit more steel per inch but not excessively so still a bit much for most projects especially beginner projects.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Olorin]

Thank you this helps me a lot. I had a piece of 1/2" round here but wasn't sure if it was good enough.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

6 hours ago, Olorin said:

I live in a medium-sized town

Where in the world might that be? It always helps with answers knowing your location, hence the suggestion to edit your profile to show your location in this thread. READ THIS FIRST   It is full of other tips to help in getting the best out of the forum. Scrap yard or your local mechanic, if you have one is a good place to get steel like coil springs, torsion bars, drag links & tie rods, etc all of which make good tongs.

[swedefiddle]

Only in Canada, Eh. Pity!!

Welcome, Orolin

This site is a two way street. If you put your location in your avatar, we will know who to suggest you get ahold of for mentoring.

Neil

[anvil]

3/4" square mild steel is a good size and type of steel to make tongs.

You will need, at times to quench(cool) your tongs and if you use "high carbon steels" they can harden and break.

 

[Olorin]

Thank you. I do know that high carbon steel is not very good for tongs at all. I am in northern BC and just need to know how to tell the difference between high and low carbon or where i can find mild steel.

 

 

 

[anvil]

I see. Other than it's use, they look the same. By use I mean a coil spring or s leaf spring are obvious. But two straight pieces of steel could be anything. 

 

Try a file if you are at a scrap dealer. Use the edge. Cut a vee notch. Mild steel will cut a bit easier than higher carbon steels. Lol, even this needs experience.

Check your phone book for steel suppliers. Even a medium sized town should have one. Check your phone book for welding shops. They have known types of steel and sometimes free drop. They also can point you to a close by steel supplier.

Have fun

[Olorin]

OK that makes sense. I hadn't thought of cuyting into it with a file, so thanks for the suggestion! The only problem I seem to have with buying it from stores is that they only sell them in industrial size orders, but I will take another look. There has to be somewhere here... 

[Frosty]

Olorin: How are you contacting the suppliers? If you're contacting them online they aren't going to respond unless you want to order a few tons or more. Try calling on the phone, the receptionist knows more about the business than the owners or CEO. I don't think I've ever run into a steel supplier that wouldn't sell a stick or let you go through the drops if you don't waste much of their time. A good thing to remember is NEVER ask lengths to be cut for transport at the counter. The counter folks have to charge per cut, they don't have much choice and usually don't really know much about steel. Ask the yard dogs if they don't ask you first. It's no thing for them to drop  stick of 5 on the chop saw and make a cut or two. The industrial cold saws can go through a piece of 2" dia. round in about 2 seconds. It's awesome to watch from a safe distance.

Call on the phone, be polite, keep it simple and reasonably quick. Good morning, how much is 1/2" square hot rolled? They'll answer in $ per lb. You get to figure out how much per stick or you can ask but it marks you as a non professional. Better to know what a stick weighs before you call though. Mild steel weighs about 0.28 lbs. per cubic inch.  For example 1/2" x 4 = 1" sq. so 20'/4 = 5 x 12 = 60" x .28 = 16.8lbs. x $/lb.  Make sense? You already know what the steel you want weighs per stick so you won't waste the nice receptionist's time. s/he'll appreciate it. If you really want to pretend to be a pro just ask how much per lb. square bar stock costs. When s/he tells you ask what the bulk rate is. They'll tell you if it is the bulk rate or give you another price and the break point, say 1 ton. Ask if it's in stock say thank you have a nice day. 

Don't tell them you're learning blacksmithing or what you're making, they're busy. As chatty as I get and I'm a chatting machine is along the lines of, "How's your day going? or Beautiful day out, etc. Something short and nice, basic manners. If they want to chat I entertain them, I'm asking THEM for help so listening to them for a bit is a small price for their help. On rare occasion you might even get a pro discount for being nice. From that point I always asked to speak to that receptionist by  name. "Morning Stew how's your day going?" We're friends now, not close but friends. If they say something like, "I'm really busy what do you need?" Keep it short and sweet, "how much for hr sq bar? 3/8" in stock?" $0.47/lb, yes." Thanks Janet, have a good day." If they reply good if not. Click.

This is all PR, getting along with folks  makes all the difference. 

Next time give them a call. "Good morning, how much per lb for sq. bar stock? I only have a small order. In stock?"  Just enough information they don't need to ask questions but not so much as to waste their time. If THEY want to chat, then by all means listen, reply, etc. Otherwise say thank you and hang up. 

Make sense?

[Goods]

There are differing options on material types for tongs. Smiths that I know, who do a lot of power hammer work, tend to stay with medium carbon or spring steal. Their main concern is strength while working steel under the power hammer. On the other hand, the smiths I know who do all hand hammering, almost always recommend mild steel. It’s a lot of work to forge spring steel tong by hand, and if you don’t need that level for strength, why put the extra effort in. Size of stock to make the tongs from varies a lot depending on what type of tongs you are making and what size stock they are meant to hold. (You wouldn’t have the same size tongs for 1/4” round as you would for 2” square!) The other factor is skill, not only for drawing out the reigns, but forge welding. If you’re good with forge welding, you can use heavier stock for the bit and weld on the reigns, savings time and effort. (I’m not there yet, but hopefully soon.) Best thing you could do it try to hook up with some other smiths and try out the equipment and see what you like and get pointers. A little hard with the current situation, so I would recommend researching different designs. There’s information on the web that will give both starting stock sizes and techniques. There is some here in the blue print section.

Keep it fun,

David

[Olorin]

Frosty   thanks for the advice. I do typically call or go to the store in question in person, though I haven't asked about price per pound. I'll have to give it a shot! 

 

Goods   I have never heard of anyone using spring steel for tongs before, though using them for power kind of makes sense as long as the tongs are not heated and rapidly cooled too often. And I would think that you would want a lower rather than higher carbon steel while working on a powerhammer, though I suppose if you know what you're doing theres little to no risk of hitting you're tongs. And I know that spring steel is tougher than mild steel, I'd just think the constant heating and cooling of the metal (however slight the heating may be, relative to the working material) would put unnecessary strain on it, would that be accurate to say? (Actually asking, I'm not certain). Thanks!

[Frosty]

You're welcome, it's my pleasure.

So long as you aren't heating sprig steel above critical and quenching it it doesn't harden. Bringing it to dull red and letting it cool on the floor normalizes and work hardening out in fact. The benefit of using higher carbon steel for tongs is strength. You're not making blades so you don't heed high carbon, spring steel is about as high as you really want to go.

The lighter your hand tool the less tiring they are to use. Provided they're strong enough of course. I usually use the same tongs at the power hammer as the anvil with some exceptions of course. I rarely forge 1" sq. at the anvil except to dress up the power hammer marks.

Mild steel makes fine tongs and I usually start with 5/8" sq. unless I need something really oversized. A RR spike is typically 5/8" sq. and enough for a pair of light tongs, two are enough for medium tongs. 

If you start with 1/2" (wire dia.) coil spring you only need to forge the bosses, bits and round the ends of the reigns for a set of heavy duty tongs. Sure spring steel is harder to move but you only have to move a little a little ways. Compare that to starting with 3/4" sq. or 3/8" x 3/4" flat and forging the whole thing. that's every inch under the hammer. 

Maybe it's just me but I'll take a little moderately hard work over a lot of moderately easy work any time. Especially if the finished product is stronger and lighter.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Goods]

The spring or medium carbon steel is left normalized, not hardened. This give a lot more strength and toughness to the tongs.

David

[Olorin]

That is fair on both accounts. Spring steel would probably be good to use I see, I just need to find some and reshape the tongs I have to hold on to them better.

 

Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it!