Pointy_Things Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Hi all! I'm just getting into blacksmithing, and I have a question about fuel. I'm using charcoal because I have access to lots of it and I wanted to use something traditional (I also hunt with stick bows and muzzle loaders). Anyway, I built a forge and my clay firepot is about 12 inches long x 4 to 5 inchs deep. The airsupply is a 2 inch pipe coming in from the side, with a hand pumped bellows. I get a lot of air. But, I'm not sure how much fuel to use. Should it be mounded up in the pot? I can get it hot, but I'm still trying to figure stuff out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Historically tuyeres were 3/4-1” ID (3/4” schedual 40 pipe is just about 7/8”) and might work beter, second as one can only forge about 6” at a time (charcoal with the above tuyere makes about that size ball) unlike coal fire spread is an issue so extra fuel on the table will just burn up and not contribute to heating the steel. You need a fire ball about the side of your two fists put to gether. I find a trench 4” wide and 8” long to be good, and about 4” below the hearth and 4” above the heath is most efferent for fuel use and will heat up to 1” stock effecently. these illustrations should help. As 1 square = 1” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 You look like you have a good set up. It's going to take some trial and error to dial everything in. Ditto to everything Charles R. Stevens said above. The only thing I'd add is use only enough air to attain the heat you need. A hard push on the bellows can blow whole pieces of burning charcoal out of the firepot if you're not careful. You might want to put a brick on either side of the trench to help bank up the pile of burning fuel. Looks good though. Welcome aboard and remember it's supposed to be fun. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Welcome aboard... That's a good looking forge you have there. Like Charles said reducing the outlet (maybe a bushing) of the tuyere will help. If you edit your profile to show your location, you may be surprised how many members are close enough to visit and offer advice. Don't know if you have seen this yet but it will explain a lot of the idiosyncrasies of the forum. READ THIS FIRST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointy_Things Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 So, maybe I'm overthinking this (which I do a lot). Maybe if I just put bricks on either side of the trench, and just out the fuel in there so it's above the hole, then that's all I need to do? Right now I have to poke the material down in the trench, and then hold it to keep it steady and keep it in the fireball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 The fuel should be above the top of the trench. The bricks help keep it in a pile. Give it a try and see if it helps. I missed seeing the size of the pipe you're using for a tuyere. It may be a little too big. I use a 3/4 to 1 inch pipe like Charles recommended. Preferably 3/4. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Brick or dirt (I have melted hard fire brick) you need the top of the tuyere about 4” below the hearth and about as much fuel above. The bricks help keep it contained. The bricks can be as close as 4” or as wide 6”. Unless you need the space 4” will prove more fuel effecently buy about a 1/3. Remember the hottest part of the fire tends to be oxygen rich, just above that is neutral and were we most often want to be. Obote that is carbon rich (the hot gasses) so be patient, the first heat takes a wile (but slow roasting heats it all the way threw insted of just the surface) and if you put the stock back in just as it gets hard to forge (still bright red) it will heat up faster the second time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointy_Things Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 So, something like this perhaps, but reduce the size of the turyere down to about 1 inch, and don't use redbrick? If I reduce the size, I can maybe angle it up a bit, I can just stick a reducer in the hole and point it up a bit. Y'all think that would work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Red brick will be fine (tho it might melt just above the tuyere were it is hottest) you might want to fill the holes in the brick with mud tho. Your looking for a fuel pile about 1 brick wide and long, the walls of the trench just help you maintain that ( much easier to keep the fuel coraled so the heat is where we need it) now this is shallow, as it has a low air volume, and is sized to heat smaller stock (horse shoes or so) but you can see bricks in use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Bricks in use on my new forge, side blast with a 6” wide trench Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointy_Things Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 Got it, going to reconfigure it a little and I will take some pics of the result. Thank y'all so much for the help, I really appreciate it and I look forward to learning more from you as I walk this path!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Paying it forward brother. Simple sideblast forges are easy/cheap to reconfigure. They allow you to experiment till you get it right for you. One of the IFI mottoes states “learn from our mistakes and go forth and make new and creative ones” ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointy_Things Posted October 6, 2019 Author Share Posted October 6, 2019 Ok, reconfigured. Narrowed the pit to 1 brick wide, but it's about 3 bricks deep and about 1.5 bricks long. It's a brick long at it's deepest point. I think it's going to work a lot better. I burned some wood in there just to set the clay up, and I will cost the whole thing with some refractory cement later. I can tell for sure it will use less fuel to get hot, I'm thinking it will get there faster and stay there longer to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Refractory cement is overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointy_Things Posted October 6, 2019 Author Share Posted October 6, 2019 I figured it was, but I have a pint of it I'm not going to use for anything else, and my morter this time is pretty sand and grog heavy. I ran out of fire clay, so I hammered some red brick and mixed it with sand, some ashes, charcoal fines, and the brick and hammered it in there. But, it's grainy and gritty, so I figured that refractory I had would firm it up a little bit. But, if you think it will harm anything, please let me know. I also stuck a smaller pipe in the opening and clayed around it, so it's got a 1" air pipe now vs the 2.5 ish one it had before. Oh, I had another question. I had an ember/spark adhere itself to my forehead and leave a nice little burn. Anyone have any ideas for knocking some of the firefleas down, some form of arrestor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Don’t figure it will hurt anything. As to fire fleas. Back the air off till it’s just hot enugh for the work at hand. Reserve welding heat for welding, you will use less fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 I use a ball valve to fine tune the air flow. You may want to find a convenient way to turn the air off when you remove the stock from the forge. You'd be surprised how much charcoal it will save. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointy_Things Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 My forge is hand pumped with an Asian style bellows. That's what the big bowl with the stick poking out is. So, turning off the air is easy, just quit pumping . But it can move a surprising amount of air, and I can blow charcoal and sparks right out of it if I get spastic. So, I guess I just need to quit jack hammering the bellows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Add another brick on top of your current stack and add more fuel to the top of that brick. Fire and flame does not heat metal, embers heat the metal. Fuel does not make the fire hotter, air makes the fire hotter. Control the size and heat in the fireball and the extra fuel will insulate the fireball and allow you to get it hotter and use less fuel. Only use enough air to get the heat you need in the fireball (embers). You will be surprised how little air it actually takes. The fire fleas then go away as you are no longer blowing them into the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 I would say somthing snide, but as much as I enjoy phone calls from Glenn... I realy don’t waunt him calling me for saying what ai am thinking ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointy_Things Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 Yeah, there is a lot of joke material in my bellows design and choice of words. I will let y'all hit those softballs if you want, I will keep lobbing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 You make your self right at home brother, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 I had your forge confused with another one that was using a blower from a heater. Sorry. Still the same advice. Only use as much air as needed and as Glenn said, more fuel. Within reason I've yet to be able to put too much fuel on a charcoal fire. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointy_Things Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 No worries man. I will finish up the working on the forge this week, and get some heating and hammering done this coming weekend. I will follow all y'all's advice as well. Going to do a little more tweaking, I think I'm gonna out a shelf under it for cold metal, and maybe paint it with some deck paint I got laying around. And, I need bigger wheels on the front, it's a pain to roll around right now. But, I honestly haven't spent more than 100 bucks in it this far, still using wood and stuff from previous home improvement projects and junk. The fire pot is an old school desk and the wheels are training wheels from my youngest girls old bike. It's been a fun build, and going to be more fun heating steel in it. I did make a folded steel cross from 1/2 stock in it prior to these tweaks, so I got something to compare to for next time. If it heats faster and generally better then I'm going to be happier than a mosquito in a nudist colony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 On 10/6/2019 at 9:54 PM, Pointy_Things said: I'm going to be happier than a mosquito in a nudist colony. I spit coffee on my key board. That is too funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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