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Machinist for Swage Block?? Anyone Here


racer3j

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I need to have a swage block made. I want to take a block of O1 and I need a series of funnel shaped holes that will go all the way through. The tapered holes will be used in conjunction with male cone hardys I have. These will become sockets for traditional "socket chisels." I would like the block to handle at least two of one size and two of a smaller. Ideally I would have a swage that has 3 of each. Before it is hardened and drawn, I would want a hardy shank welded onto it. Any takers?? Thanks, JET

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I will do that. I just got through the introduction before I fell asleep last night. Without reading however, whatever I end up with will be worked hard. The steel will be around $170-185. If things go well, I might be making damascus and O1 sockets at the rate of 20-30 per week.If that happens,I needa swage that works with no fuss or botherA properly made and finished and treated socket chisel sells for $50-75.mt

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when I made sockets for chisels, I just used black pipe or tubing and a tapered cone mandrel to drive then down onto it hot, after swaging the small end some first, then cut the socket off the pipe for attachment to the chisel. I bought the chisels at flea mkts that had the handles missing and someone used a metal hammer on the sockets to drive them, destroying the socket part. cut off the old socket and arc welded or torch welded the new socket in place, then forged for a nice transition . If you look inside old chisel sockets you can see the forge weld inside, from being fullered wide, then wrapped and finally forge welded over a mandrel, the inside is usually a cold lap seam.

Edited by irnsrgn
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I just free handed them and welded up the seam on the side, they aren' t too hard once you have done 10-100 of them... ;-) Welding them without blowing through the socket can be an issue but a little mig gun weld handled should fix that. I prefere to do them on the power hammer now, start with thicker material, finish with a thicker socket, and its easier to weld and stronger...

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3018A2- part number for tapered reamer at Mc Master-Carr- This is the approximate tapered hole I need in the steel block. To account for wall thickness, the diameter at small end of cone female die would likely be 1/2" position and up the taper from that point for about two inches. I don't know if there is some kind of plunge milling cutter that would do it. Shade tree would be to use two hunks of mild steel with this reamer in a brace and the "sandwich" in a vise. Ream, tighten vise;ream, tighten vise; and on and on. Then weld the two pieces together and finish ream by hand with same reamer. If there is a milling cutter that would do it, it would be less tedious- though such thinking is outside the tradition of smiths' " find a means with stuff on hand." I am still open to more ideas. Thanks,jet

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In my 50+ years as a Blacksmith, Weldor and Machinist, I guess my success was not allowing myself to contract tunnel vision. And I guess some forget that the lowly dirty Smith did have a tradition, they developed most of the original Machine Tools so they could do their jobs easier, better and quicker. The term "Machine Shop" comes from the Blacksmiths who started developing and using Machines to make their jobs easier etc, so the people started calling the Blacksmith Shops, Machine Shops as the Smiths shops were full of all sorts of Machines that they used to accomplish their tasks.

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Your thinking stock removal. Why not stock addition?

Take a piece of pipe and swage it down to the *right* size and taper, cut it in half and then buttress the half pipe for support. There is nothing wrong with the old ways of making the socket, it is just a bit slower.

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By golly, I'll bet that is gonna be a slick little setup. I'd like to see how it works when you get it set up. Not real sure what you are trying to form though. Sheet? Put a disc over the cone and drive in? Or drop in a slug and push a mandrel in to form the socket?

Inquiring minds want to know.

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I had a friend do a massive spearpoint out of D2. He had the socket EDM'd.
(started as a 32# block of D2, ended as 8# as I recall---what the customer wanted!)

I am still not quite sure how this die and drift are going to be used---are you trying to drift a solid rod held captive in the die to fit between the mandrel and the die?

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This is closest to plan. start with a disc- heat to good shaping color- put over cone shaped hole- with male cone mandrel drive metal into socket - pickup slightly larger cone male, which I have, drive in to "finish swage." To a chisel blade, forged/swaged, fire up good old OA torch and weld together- extra metal deposition to shape for graceful transition.

irnsrgn- I should force myself to improvise, but time is not on my side. I have some demand for these and within the last 3 months, my income has reduced by two-thirds.A fine young fellow in KY will turn the handles. I have a 1/2 cone swage- both cones are too big and it was too dear to modify. I may just have to do the vise - reamer deal after drilling a 3/8th guide hole so the reamer doesn't try to walk all over.jet( I have the small size reamer- I can do a test run.)

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I have posted info by PM. Cutters described are from discounttools.com and are in "Tapered end mills" section of milling cutters. Further interest by Mr. Warner would keep me optomistic. If I were really skilled with one of my cone mandrels, I would just lay the heated steel coupon at the edge of the face, hold it down wiith the cone mandrel, hammer up to start the wrap around, continue wrapping around the cone and then when overlapping, flux, forge weld and clean up. I am not anywhere near good enough to do that yet, not even close! Regards to all and thanks to Mr. Warner for his interest and possible offer to help fabricate the block. jet

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Since you are using a torch to join the socket to the chisel I would make a cone by rolling the sheet then torch weld the seam. or MIG/TIG if you have it.

I have a set up for flowers as you describe and I think you won't get what you envision. The sheet will wrinkle and need to be smoothed in several intermediate steps. as well the steel will be stretched and thinned where it really needs to be thickest.

For an example of what you are looking at doing see the Rafi Rose in the blueprints
BP1005 Rafi Rose. Yes the effect is intentional But that is the effect that you wil;l get even without trying for it. This blueprint technique capitalizes on the wrinkiling that does occur. Also when I try to form my flowers and get impatient I usually punch through the center.

Good luck

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