Forge recommendations for a rookie

[Whit30]

Hello everyone,

If this is in the wrong place, please advise me where to put it. I didn't feel posting under a particular forge was not the right place.

My needs are a low cost forge for knives and railroad spikes.

At first, I want to buy knife blanks that are not HT and practice doing some decorative file work on them and then heat treating them. With this in mind, could I get by with filing a heat treated blade and not need to take the treat out? I have read so many things that counter the other.

I also want to do projects with railroad spikes. From hangers to knives and anything in between. So I don't need a lot of fancy stuff right now as money is a factor.

For my purposes, would you suggest a coffe can forge using the ceramic blanket and propane torch, using an old charcoal grill and possibly buying a few fire insulating bricks and an air blower?

Will the coffee can forge get hot enough for forging the railroad spikes? Does it need to be a double burner or will a single torch be enough?

Finally, if you feel the can is the way to go, the blankets come in 1" and 2" in thickness. It looks like most are using the 1 inch in the cans. It it's hard to tell. Will the extra cost for the 2" be justified?

Thank you for any suggestions and tips as I can't wait to get into the hobby. Thanks again and take care!

[Charles R. Stevens]

For cost and speed of build look at the 55 and JABOD forges, you should find a lot of information pinned under solidfuel forges. 

Small gassers like the soup can forge, one brick forge and others aren’t particularly hard to build either, but you need to buy materials and parts and in the case of ceramic wool, failing to use rigid user and hardfacing can lead to significant health risks.

so for a beginner, a small charcoal forge will get you started, and from there you can learn about other forges, collect materials wile beating on hot iron. 

Now for heat treating, charcoal got the job done for millennia, tho gas forges and electric furnaces (toaster ovens) are a bit easer to use. Again, you get started and learn hands on wile you collect materials and parts for somthing easer to work with for consistent results

 

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Whit, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the gang live within visiting distance. 

Networking with blacksmiths will put you in touch with tools, equipment, materials and most important experienced smiths to show you stuff and tell you what you did wrong that time. No fooling, a couple hours with an experienced smith will teach you more than days of trying to figure it out yourself.

A bean can or 1/2 brick forge can do a lot of work. One of the guys in our club does most of his smithing with a 2 brick gasser using a 1/2" T burner and with that much burner in that small a volume it's seriously over powered he runs it at pretty minimal psi and welds all the time. He only fires up his large forge when several guys are working at the same time or he's doing something large like scrolling shelf brackets, etc.

Like Charles says though, there are things to buy. If you go with a bean can or other small cylindrical forge you definitely want to use 1" 8 lb. refractory blanket, thicker blanket wrinkles when you roll it into the shell and wrinkles cast flame shadows for uneven heating. Rigidizer is an important treatment for ceramic blanket it encapsulates the ceramic fibers and prevents them from breaking loose and floating around to be a breath hazard. Sure it's a long term hazard in most cases like . . . asbestosis. Then as the name implies it makes the blanket more rigid so the flame face refractory doesn't break up or come off easily. 

Next purchase is a water setting castable hard refractory applied about 1/2" thick on the floor and thinner if you need to maximize internal space. Once set, cured and fired it provides a concrete hard armor layer to prevent heat and mechanical damage to the ceramic blanket. Being as the inner liner is in direct contact with the fire it needs to be a robust material or the high temp chemistry propane does will erode it more quickly. This layer is known as the flame face because it . . . IS.

The last and often optional step is applying a "kiln wash" this is used in ceramics as a release agent preventing glazes and certain clays from firing permanently to the kiln furniture. Another high end job it does is reradiate heat and provides another layer of shielding for the insulating layer. Some kiln washes are designed for any furnace material but work a treat on ceramic blankets, Matrikote and Plistex by name. Others contain zirconium silicate flour and are significant IR reradiators. Products like ITC-100 contain zirconia but don't fire hard so they rub off quickly and it's prohibitively expensive.

A charcoal sideblast forge is easier and cheaper to build. No need for fire brick at all though a couple can improve the performance. Check out the JABOD threads started by Charles. By cheap I mean CHEAP, a JABOD is literally, Just A Box Of Dirt. Well, we blacksmith type guys call ourselves "Frugal" but that's for our public face.  

The only real expense building a JABOD is for a piece of black iron pipe for the tuyere pipe and an air source. Bellows can be made from an amazing list of things from a paper bag, cardboard box, pipe and feathers or straw on a stick, boards and cloth/leather or . . . (deleted the long list) stuff. A garage sale hair drier provides way more air than necessary but it's easy to control. Charcoal doesn't need a lot of air so forget shop vacs and leaf blowers!

Don't over think this stuff, you have a good handle on what you need and how to pick up the craft, you'll be giving lessons before you know it.

Frosty The Lucky. 

[SpankySmith]

Don't forget the tried and true "askin' around" for a forge!  Let people know you're looking for one, one might just land in your lap for a song. 

 

[Frosty]

Thanks for the reminder Spanky!  The TPAAAT method works for anything you're looking for even if anvil is part of the name. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

"Thomas Powers Applied Apparatus Acquisition Technique"?

[Frosty]

"Thomas Powers Applied Anything Acquisition Technique"? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

There we go!

 

[SpankySmith]

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

Thanks for the reminder Spanky!  The TPAAAT method works for anything you're looking for even if anvil is part of the name. 

Frosty The Lucky.

I was trying to find a very particular type of workboot lately, but being poor and all I couldn't really afford a pair.  Walked into a thrift store in my neighborhood this weekend and they had...wait for it....exactly ONE pair of the EXACT type, nay, even the exact BRAND of boot I was looking for, and that one pair was in EXACTLY my size, in "like new" condition.  Cost me $6.  The universe sometimes finds a way to make things happen for you, be it shoes or anvils or forges. 

[Frosty]

Oooooh the stars were shining for you that day Darlin!

You DID buy a lottery ticket? I HOPE!

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Like when they sold off the German Base Exchange on Fort Bliss after the German forces stopped training out here and I was at a local fleamarket and found 4 pairs of brand new, in the box, combat boots to fit my 13 EEEE feet for US$3 a pair as nobody native to this area wears such a weird size.  I'm wearing pair #2 as I type.  (Drives some of my coworkers up the wall with their high dollar fancy shoes....nice to forge in too)