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Burners problems in forge


Chuyn

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Hi I'm still very new and I just finished my first ever forge. I tried heating up something for the first time (railroad spike) and while I was turning up my psi my burners started to make a weird sounds. They started to "choke" not exactly know if that's the correct term but they seem like they were temporary turning off and turning back on. I was outside while doing this not sure if the wind can cause something like that. Just wanna check that everything is working properly before I continue.

Thanks! I added some picture to see if that help! Psi was about 3-4

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Good Morning,

Where are your end walls? Stack fire-bricks so you can adjust for when you put a long thing in the Forge. Make a front door shelf with brick, make the height adjustable with an opening near the shelf (bottom half, open, top half closed). You can use a piece of broken brick as a dam, move it with Tongs. You can't leave the Forge ends wide open, you can't completely seal them. The exhaust has to go somewhere.

This is the part your Mom didn't tell you. You HAVE TO experiment to see what works.

Neil

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Fluttering can be caused by wind issues; but more often it is that the orifice is not directly in and pointing down the center of the mixing tube.

You will need to tune the burners with the ends of the forged closed as if in use as the back pressure makes a difference too.

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A few things of note here.  You were running at pretty low pressure.  It's not uncommon for a NA burner to have some low end threshold (each burner is a little different) for functional pressure.  Below that pressure the burner will not function properly and will tend to have a chirping type sound when the flame burns up inside the mixing tube.  I'm not sure if that's what you meant by fluttering or not.  When that happens there will not be a good flame cone at the end of the burner.

Next, as mentioned by TP you may have a jet alignment issue.  We only have the one pic, but based on that picture it appears to me that either your jet is not centrally aligned with the burner tube or the flame is impinging on one side of the hole in the refractory as it exits the burner.  It looks to be slightly lopsided in other words. Also as TP noted, tuning and final positioning should be done as much as possible to real use conditions.

Beyond that you have a significant blue-green hue to the flame, which indicates your burner is running quite rich in fuel if the colors in the picture are accurate. 

I think your issues are within the range of tweaking/tuning the burner to get it where you want it, but you will have to make some changes.  Just change one thing at a time and record the effects before moving to the next issue so that you know what thing(s) finally get you where you want to be.

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Thank you for all the great feedback!

I was planning on closing the back with firebrick which should come in either tomorrow or tonight. Also adding legs to the forge itself. I just didn't know that not having a closed end would affect the burners so much. I have to confess as well that I was getting a little to excited to test out my forge and didn't wanna wait till it came in.

23 hours ago, Buzzkill said:

Beyond that you have a significant blue-green hue to the flame, which indicates your burner is running quite rich in fuel if the colors in the picture are accurate. 

Would the affect the overall performance of the forge? Does it mean its getting too much oxygen or too much propane? I seen a few picture of T burners that have an adjustable bracket in the end of both side of the T. Would it be beneficial if I added something like that? 

I have added picture as best of my abilities to show the center of my two burners. Maybe that would show if that's really my problem or not.

Thanks again! please let me know if you guys see any other improvements that I can do.

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Your flame looks like it has more propane than it should have for the amount of air that is being pulled in.  With a T burner if everything else is done correctly then trimming the mig tip a little at a time for fine tuning is all you need to do.  The further the end of the mig tip is from the opening of the mixing tube the more air will be drawn in (within the confines of the T anyway). You can also drop down one mig tip size to decrease the amount of fuel compared to the air being pulled in.

It's not really possible to accurately determine if your jet is centered well in relation to the burner tube from a picture or two like that.  Camera angles, lighting, etc. make it too hard to judge.  If you really want to know then hook up a water source with some pressure (a garden hose will usually suffice) to your mig tip fitting.  With the mixing tube in place as it would be in use then see if the water stream looks centered as it exits the mixing tube.  If it does you're golden.  If it's just a hair off I personally probably would not mess with it.  If the stream hits the tube anywhere before the end or if it's close to hitting the tube you'll probably want to make changes or drill and tap a new T.

I think the brackets you refer to are actually choke plates to restrict the amount of air entering the burner.  In your case it would only make things worse since you are short on air and long on fuel right now.  A properly built and tuned T burner does not need choke plates.  However, if you have trouble with the flame blowing off the end of the burner when you first light it, choke plates could help keep the flame in place as the forge warms up.  Doing that will make the flame run rich, like you have now, and will produce a fair amount of carbon monoxide.  If you're not operating the forge outside (and maybe even then) you should have a carbon monoxide detector nearby to warn you if the levels are too high.   If you do run a T burner with chokes, then as the forge begins to glow you'll want to open the plates so that there are no restrictions once the forge interior is glowing.

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Thanks again for the feedback and the detailed explanation of everything. I think I have a better idea in how I can improve my flame.

The end of the mig tip has a small hole. I read that a rotary tool  is used to remove a small piece of the end to help with the tuning. Is that the correct way in tunning it? By removing that end of it? Also start with 1/16" or maybe more like 1/8"? 

Thank again! 

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IMO you should save the fine tuning as the last step.  If your jet alignment is good and you are keeping a good flame shape at the end of the burner at medium pressures when it's in the forge as close to real use conditions as possible then it's time to tune. 

As for trimming the mig tip, there are a number of ways that work ok.  A small rotary tool is one way.  I tend to chuck them up in a drill and use my belt grinder to shorten them with the drill running.  This can also be done on stationary sandpaper or a file.  You're running pretty rich (if the pictured colors are accurate), so I'd probably try a smaller mig tip first.  Otherwise I would probably take an 8th inch off and then work in 16ths after that if more was needed. Regardless of which method you use to shorten a mig tip, the last step should be to ensure the hole in the mig tip is clean and clear all the way through. You can easily end up with small burrs at the end where you've been shortening the tip.  A torch tip cleaning set will give you several different diameters to work with, and one of them should be close to the orifice size in your mig tip. 

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It's not ideal for getting a good swirl.  If it could be done without moving the mounts, I'd aim a little higher on the wall.  I don't think he can aim at the near side of the floor with mounts as they are.  Still, if he blocks off most of the ends and it gets to welding temps I wouldn't lose much sleep over it.

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M hmm. What I see here is the flame aimed almost directly into the transition angle between wall and floor. This will increase back pressure more than necessary. No problem while the ends are open, the flame can flow out the doors. There's plenty of adjustment in his burner mounts to angle them up or down, either will lesson back pressure  and improve vortex generation. 

As it is now I think they'll have to aim higher on the wall, I don't think there's enough adjustment to hit the close side of the floor but maybe. Were it mine I'd play with both  then decide.

Frosty The Lucky.

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