Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 The orifice that came with our kiln burner that we used in a forge came with a .0625 it acted exactly like yours when we fired it up. Picked up another orifice and drilled it to .036 which corrected that problem. https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/50381-20-pound-propane-tank-forge-in-progress/ So as everyone has said, don't give up on your forge just yet. The first thing to change is the orifice opening diameter and go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillion Brian Grant Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 I know an angle is a good thing bu i meant thay they are pointing to the outsides of the front and back which is making the fire leave the forge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 If I understand you correctly you are saying that the distance between the mixing tubes is greater where the tubes enter the forge than the distance between the tubes where the fuel lines are attached. In other words the tubes are pointed slightly towards the openings at both ends. If that is the case it's not ideal, but based on the pictures I don't believe that angle is enough to cause major problems unless the flames are aimed in such a way that they are hitting one side of the hole in the refractory before entering the forge chamber. The main problem as far as I can tell is the burner construction, not the burner orientation. If you can get good burners mounted on that forge and close off most of the area on the ends with firebrick you should have something that works ok. The flames are leaving the forge (or appear to be) because not enough oxygen is being supplied to the fuel inside the forge. So, what's happening is some (a lot) of the fuel is burning outside the forge where there is enough oxygen for combustion. That creates the large flames you are seeing out of the ends of your forge. Well tuned burners will draw in enough air to provide the oxygen for combustion inside the forge. Then you'll have mostly hot exhaust gases and much less visible flames outside the forge chamber. Make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillion Brian Grant Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Yes that makes complete sense, and yes ur understand is correct they are angled outwards to the openings on each end but what do you mean when by , hitting one side of the hole in the refractory before entering the forge chamber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Shouldn't be too hard to change the angle of the burner tubes, if welded grind the welds off & re-weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillion Brian Grant Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 But the burners are already cast int9 the castable refractory so I would need to recast the top of the bottlw which is exspensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Don't cast the burners into the refractory next time, you don't really think this will be your last forge do you? Make note of what happens when you cast the burners into the forge liner. I'm betting once you get those burners running properly you'll be able to pull them out of the liner. They WILL overheat seriously and burn up. Let us know when they start getting wobbly and we'll tell you how easy it is to ream the holes out and how to mount your next set of better burners. For now, forget how the burners are aimed in the forge, you have a fuel air ratio problem and that's just a matter of drilling a couple more holes in new pipe nipples. NOTHING MORE! That's IT, do nothing else! ONE thing at a time little brother, just one at a time. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillion Brian Grant Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 12 hours ago, Frosty said: useless quoting removed again The problem is even with a better fuel to air ratio the outward angle is to severe so the rire is hitting the last inch and a half 9n each side with basically 16 inches of dead space in between so even by changing the ratio it wouldnt work without recasting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Dillion Brian Grant said: but what do you mean when by , hitting one side of the hole in the refractory before entering the forge chamber? I may have made an incorrect assumption, but before I started using ribbon burners, when I would apply the refractory layer I'd leave the holes for the burners big enough so that I could change how the burners are aimed inside the forge. My mounting tubes on the outside of the forge were more than double the diameter of the mixing tube and they had several bolts to hold the burner in place and change the aim. Since the end of the burner was about 2 inches up inside the hole from the forge chamber, it would be possible to aim the burners so that the flame cone could make contact with a wall of the hole cast into the refractory. If you cast the end of the burners directly into the refractory that shouldn't be an issue for you, but you've already discovered that technique leaves you no room for adjusting the aim of the burner. 7 hours ago, Dillion Brian Grant said: But the burners are already cast int9 the castable refractory so I would need to recast the top of the bottlw which is exspensive It's not as big of a deal as you seem to think it is. As Frosty has mentioned, the holes can be changed/enlarged and it's not a huge deal to change your burner mounts on the outside of the forge. That's stuff for the future. Right now you do not have functioning burners and that's where you should focus your attention. 3 hours ago, Dillion Brian Grant said: The problem is even with a better fuel to air ratio the outward angle is to severe so the rire is hitting the last inch and a half 9n each side with basically 16 inches of dead space in between so even by changing the ratio it wouldnt work without recasting Is your forge even 16 inches long in total? Even if it is it seems like you are convinced there's no way to make what you have work. Several people here are attempting to help you get what you have working. All you have to do is take a little advice, make one change, then report back to us with the result and we'll move on to the next one. We obviously don't know everything, but those of us trying to help have successfully built forges and burners that do what we need them to do. Even if you think we're wrong it will only cost you a little bit of time to make some of the changes, and a fraction of the cost of the forge you were looking at for other changes. Why not give our suggestions a shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillion Brian Grant Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 True true i understand what u mean i think i may go that rpute after all since lime u say thats a fraction of a cost c9mpared to the cost of a forge, ill report back when the burner is fixed Also sorry to everybody for not properly using quoetes like i need to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillion Brian Grant Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 And actually from front to back it is about 17 or 18 inches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 So, you get two new 1/8" pipe nipples and drill new orifices in them with a #60 drill bit, dead center on the pipe, and replace the existing pipe nipples with these new ones. Make sure the orifices are dead center inside the reducer fitting, pointing straight down the mixing tubes (if you can connect a garden hose to your gas intake, you can shoot a jet of water out of the orifices and use that to align them properly). If you use the water jet method of aligning the orifices, once done, blast out the water with an air compressor, then connect the propane hose. Leave the choke plates off the burners. Fire it up and see how it burns. Take pics and let us see how it burns. Simple, cheap fix. After your burners are working, you can think about how they're mounted in the forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Dillion: The only thing you can do by coming up with new ways a project will a fail is failure. "Whether you believe that you can or you believe that you can't. You're right." Henry Ford. In short. STOP telling us why it won't work, we're telling you how to correct it! A can do attitude is the only on with much chance of success in front of it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Hammer Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 How much so far do you have into this forge project so far? I think you need to carefully weigh your investment up to this point compared with what you'll spend on buying a ready made forge. I commend you for trying to do this. I never even tried. I just bought my forge, unpacked it, hooked it up and started forging metal. Did I pay too much vs. a build? Oh yes, I certainly did. I paid $500 for a forge that someone else spent years perfecting the design, parts, and operation. The price I paid reflected the years of building, trial and error / production costs of making my forge. I think it is so great that guys build these wonderful working forges for so cheap and they work so well, but there is no shame in buying one either if you want to throw in the towel and I'm as cheap as the next guy. If you want to purchase a forge, I see nothing wrong with you doing so. Save this one and tinker with it as time and money permit. That's not giving up as much as realizing maybe you are in over your head a little. I personally think your set-up looks very dangerous. There's wood on the floor under the forge and lots of flames everywhere. I'm concerned with your safety at this point. I've never built a forge so in that aspect I tip my hat to your efforts thus far. I know this post will be unpopular probably but thought that someone ought to bring this perspective into the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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