JABOD Forge "roof" addition

[Dillion Brian Grant]

So, I just finished adding a so-called roof to my forge, my logic is the bricks will help hold in some more of the heat, and at the same time will be high enough to still be able to add fuel tell,me what y'all think about it also any ideas or any advice is appreciated

[Frosty]

It's called a closed fire or oven. It has it's purposes but tends to get in the way if not needed. You usually see them for heat treating.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Dillion Brian Grant]

Tbh I use it so the heat from the fire doesn't melt the sophet of my shelter lol

[Frosty]

I'd call that a valid reason! Then move it farther from the house even if I had to make and sell trinkets to pay for materials. A cement board makes a cheap efficient heat shield. it's used to back for tile work in wet or high heat areas. If you use 1/2" spacers to hang it the air space will further protect whatever's behind it.

Easy and cheap fire protection.

Heck, if you want to get crazy you can paint it to look like red brick, mask it for a mortar look. Masonry or cement plants usually have brick red flat or semi-gloss paint on the shelf for just this purpose. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Dillion Brian Grant]

On 4/13/2018 at 1:35 PM, Frosty said:

I'd call that a valid reason! Then move it farther from the house even if I had to make and sell trinkets to pay for materials. A cement board makes a cheap efficient heat shield. it's used to back for tile work in wet or high heat areas. If you use 1/2" spacers to hang it the air space will further protect whatever's behind it.

 

So wait, to make sure I'm understanding correctly are u saying basically take the cement board and basically attach it to the underpinning on my shelter? 

[Frosty]

Yes, screw it to the wall behind your forge on 1/2" spacers. Sheetrock will do for spacers if you don't drive the screws in too hard.

I don't know what you mean by "underpinning". You need a heat shield between the fire and wood. Cement backer board meets code in most places in the USA but check to be sure.

Not to be picky but if you leave the words "Basically" and "Actually," out of your vocabulary completely you'll sound better. They have specific and frankly rare uses but have become popular space fillers used when a person can't think of what to say. Sooooo, if you never use them folk will think you always know what you're saying. Make sense?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Dillion Brian Grant]

Well, the problem for,me issnt the wall, its the ceiling of my shelter,that's what I'm calling the underpinning

[Charles R. Stevens]

Imforge under a carport and have no problems, are you using raw wood or are you running  a hairdryer wide open?!

[Dillion Brian Grant]

I'm using a handcrank blower from champion forge that I salvaged, and most of the time yes raw wood, ill post pics of my shelter in a minute

[Frosty]

How high is the roof over your fire? Cement backer board would work but a hood might be a better way of separating the fire from the shed. Heck Sheetrock is intended to have at least a 1/2 hr. burn through rating and would work. Problem with hanging sheet rock on the ceiling is it's a PITA, heavy and fragile it takes help. 

Frosty The Lucky. 

[Dillion Brian Grant]

My roof is about 3-4 feet over the fire

 

And yeah ive meesed,with a pretty good deal,of sheetrock that stuff is aggravating as can be

 

[Frosty]

Yeah, that's pretty close I'd shield it. You'll like hanging cement backer board if you've hung sheet rock. Easy peasy. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Dillion Brian Grant]

Sounds good

 

[Dillion Brian Grant]

Ok well, I just looked into it and to shield my shelter like it needs to be done would cost a small fortune so sadly that idea wont be done any time soon 

[Frosty]

9 hours ago, Dillion Brian Grant said:

Ok well, I just looked into it and to shield my shelter like it needs to be done would cost a small fortune so sadly that idea wont be done any time soon 

Really? Who'd you contact and ask? NOT the insurance fire inspector guys I hope, they'd say no if you  were working in a fire vault if you asked about blacksmithing. 

Ask about a charcoal BBQ instead. What you're doing isn't significant'y different but bureaucrats can't,  JUST CAN NOT risk their job making a decision! Oh HEAVAN'S NO!

In reality a little extra precautions above what you need for a charcoal BBQ is generally enough to get past a FD inspector.

Honest, been there our insurance agent says NO to a gas forge in a steel shop filled with non flammables. 

I'd move your shelter away from living quarters (the house) install a decent side draft hood and shield around it with Cement backer board or sheet steel. That should be enough for the FD if not ask the inspector what tweeks it needs. The FD folk are generally more interested in safety than bureaucratic butt covering.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Dillion Brian Grant]

Well, I mean that my dad said if I was going to do it he was only going to be ok with it if I replaced all of the siding, and all of the ceiling with it,  the wall with the siding is approximately 8'×24' and the ceiling is approximately 12'×24' and to fully cover everything it would cost around 500 dollars after taxes

And that is only if I do 1 layer of 1/4" cement board

 

To be honest I havent ever considered getting it inspected the only things ive done is make sure my mom wont freak out to much about my set up lol

[Frosty]

 Good grief, don't do the whole wall and ceiling!  One board behind the fire and one above it. Don't get crazy with screws and you can patch the holes with a LITTLE spackle.(sp?) 

Call a shop that sells wood stoves and ask them about heat shielding. Do NOT tell them you're talking about a forge, they don't know diddly about forges and well be crazy conservative. Just tell them someone in the family was thinking about installing a little wood stove and wants to know about walls and the stove. They can give you the local particulars.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Dillion Brian Grant]

Yes I know, I tried explaining that to my dad bout just needing 2 pieces, but he wouldnt listen, he was like it will look bad if u do it like that, I'm just thinking so what, if it gets the job done Thats what matters

[Daswulf]

Exactly. Looks can improve with time. Use what you need to get the job done now then worry about looks later. This is about safety, not looks. 

[ianinsa]

40 minutes ago, Daswulf said:

Exactly. Looks can improve with time. Use what you need to get the job done now then worry about looks later. This is about safety, not looks. 

said in the age where people buy "the brand" before they compare "the product". Safety is definitely the real issue but i can empathize with the need for it to look acceptable.  often "the Boss"(your folks) are wanting you to "take in the bigger picture" and it is perceived as the stick in the mud mindset ask your Dad if he has any sugestions that will be within your limited budget   and you might be pleasantly surprised(well i'm hoping so). Keep us informed.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Against my better judgement I keep getting drawn back in.

moving your forge and building a fence panel shed would be cheaper and probbably more satisfactory in the long run.

The basic JABOD in not a real good design for raw wood.

[Will W.]

17 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

The basic JABOD in not a real good design for raw wood.

Genuine question here: why? I thought it was intended for charcoal. Wood and charcoal burn pretty similarly, compared to things like coal anyway. Im just curious is all. 

[Frosty]

5 minutes ago, Will W. said:

Genuine question here: why? I thought it was intended for charcoal. Wood and charcoal burn pretty similarly, compared to things like coal anyway. Im just curious is all. 

Close but no cigar Will. Wood and coal burn similarly with open flames, smoke and shed excess heat. Where charcoal and breeze or forge coke burn with little external flame at very high but contained temperatures, pushing 3,000 f. easily. 

A charcoal forge fire needs some depth to produce the necessary zones, #1 close to the air grate or tuyere is the oxidizing zone, #2 is the heart, where temperatures are at the max but all the oxygen has been consumed. #3, last but not least is the reducing or carburizing zone, a good place to temper or slowly heat stock where the excess carbon prevents or even reverses scaling. 

A wood fire is oxidizing pretty much all the way through. However below the burning wood is the coal bed which  has the 3 zones mostly sort of unless you design the fire properly. A hill trench forge works well for using wood. The wood pyrolizes, converting to charcoal in a sloping trench above the forge fire proper. You rake charcoal out of the trench into the iron heating area. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Charles R. Stevens]

It takes a pile of burning wood to burn down to form charcoal, charcoal or the burning embers gets much hotter than wood. So you esentualy need a hopper of burning wood over the top of the forge, or next to the forge. This is where the Virilox type forge works as with the “V” you keep adding wood on top to form charcoal. To make a JABOD forge work you need to extend the walls or banks on each side some what to allow pirolizing if the wood so as to have enough hot embers in the forge to form a forging hotspot. Each fuel has its particularities, as dose each forge. You match up the two for the performance profile you want.

 

Jerry, this where side blast and bottom blast differ, bottom blast forges charcoal generaly needs a dealer bed than coal, wile for a side blast the opposes is generaly true. 

[Will W.]

Interesting, thanks for the info guys. I just pyrolize my wood in a retort and burn the charcoal, never tried using raw wood before.