dablacksmith Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Ive got the book pounding out the profits and it has got me wondering about olivers .Anyone know how far they go back in history? anyone got any pictures of old historic ones? I do historic reinactments of various time periods so I prefer to use historicly correct tools when I can.. any info is appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I don't recall any examples earlier than the 19th century. I would not say they were common even then---you just used a striker! If I was looking for them I'd check Diderot's encyclopedia, there may have been a variation for file or chain making where it wasn't worth the extra cost of a striker. Your historically correct equipment should include at least two helpers at the forge! BTW what time periods do you do? I have a Y1K set up with a cube anvil and two single action bellows; the forge gets built from local clay as needed. My Renaissance forge has the T stake anvil; but I gave away my double lunged bellows when I moved and have to build a new one. Luckily a lot of the hammers and tongs are good from roman through modern times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 There are some photos of oliver type hammers in a publication on Chain Making in the Black Country of Britian. These were used on the small diamter chains. Since they are in actual photos, rather than drawings or woodcuts, they may be from a later time period than you're interesed in. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 chk the gallery for pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted April 10, 2008 Author Share Posted April 10, 2008 I don't recall any examples earlier than the 19th century. I would not say they were common even then---you just used a striker! If I was looking for them I'd check Diderot's encyclopedia, there may have been a variation for file or chain making where it wasn't worth the extra cost of a striker. Your historically correct equipment should include at least two helpers at the forge! BTW what time periods do you do? I have a Y1K set up with a cube anvil and two single action bellows; the forge gets built from local clay as needed. My Renaissance forge has the T stake anvil; but I gave away my double lunged bellows when I moved and have to build a new one. Luckily a lot of the hammers and tongs are good from roman through modern times! I do mostly 1790-1840 time pereods but my shop at the museum ime using 1910 as my timeline ..also looking into doing a few renisance fairs in the future ... My portable forge has a 2 chamber bellows and is a bottom draft..tryed side draft and found it took to much playing with fire for my purposes...( I know its more period correct but....) i was thinking of building a simple oliver using a sledge hammer as a new tool for demo.. ive seen a few dezigns but not much old dezigns .. thanks for info guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseRidge Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I'm trying to remember where I saw a woodcarving of a variation of wood lathe setup.... one where a strong sapling was bent over with a rope and when you stepped on a board the sapling bend down.... normally, the rope would be wound around a beam which would turn, allowing the beam to be turning to shape.... In this case, the end of the sapling was encased in a metal sleeve with a large end (probably due to the accuracy!), allowing the smith to free his hands for holding the metal and tools.... Probably not good for large forgings, but should work for chasing and repousse work.... Just a thought.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 These are pictures of a Salesmans Sample I copied off ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Gomez Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Here is a chain making video with a short clip of an Oliver style treadle hammer in use. YouTube - Forging of chain by smiths (2) - blacksmithing The hammer is 2:25 into the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Hope this helps you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted April 10, 2008 Author Share Posted April 10, 2008 good info all of these posts these things are complex ! and so many different ways of doing somthing I figured was "simple" !the chain makeing video is nice ! tho those guys must be getting overtime pay to move so fast....the model oliver is interesting might use that spring dezign (ive got a few leaf springs laying around) those images will help thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_sandy_creek_forge Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I'm trying to remember where I saw a woodcarving of a variation of wood lathe setup.... one where a strong sapling was bent over with a rope and when you stepped on a board the sapling bend down.... normally, the rope would be wound around a beam which would turn, allowing the beam to be turning to shape.... I think maybe The Art of Blacksmithing by Alex W Bealer. Pg. 114. It's a heavy wooden frame, and it uses a lamination of planks as the spring. It just happens to be directly opposite the pictures of spring-pole and treadle style lathes on Pg. 115. If you don't already have the book, I suggest getting it. A good "history of blacksmithing lesson" and LOTS of pen-and-ink style illustrations (what can I say... I love pictures ) -Aaron @ the SCF P.S. I have the 1995 edition for reference purposes Edited to add: A picture of it is also on the back of the dustcover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habu68 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 old oliver about half way down the page. Old Sturbridge It took me a couple of days to find it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseRidge Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Had a copy for years.... I used to do SCA, (blacksmith, poetry, rapier, archery, calligraphy, weaving, etc.....) so I was looking for old manuscripts for ideas for various projects, it was an old woodcut..... hmm... maybe it'll come to me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 For that old the Hausbuchs and De Re Metallica come to mind for woodcuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I think that there are plans in the Blueprints for an Oliver hammer if you want to build a much simpler version but that sure is a neat model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 That ad for a foot powered hammer looks like the hammer in this picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habu68 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I once played with a design that would use a helve arm that would extend past the pivot point and with an over balanced weight instead of a spring. My reasoning was that the mass of the counter weight would be applied to the hammer side as the hammer hit the work. One draw back would be the force applied to the pivot bearing at the strike. I never found my "roundtuit" for this project. maybe some day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habu68 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Encyclopedia of Diderot & d'Alemberthttp://quod.lib.umich.edu/d/did/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Tredle hammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete46 Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 Thanks Sam ,even I Could Work From This Diagram! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 No prob Pete, my hammer and anvil are 2 3/4 round solid(what I got in a trade awhile back), arm and supports are tubing, base is like whatever plate thick enough I can find. Purple thing is a garage door spring. You are going to want the actuator connected close to the pivot on the hammer end, and on the foot treadle farthest out from the pivot, and tune from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete46 Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 OH YEA THAT'LL WORK! FRIEND AT WORK IS GOING TO WELDING SCHOOL! HE WILL BE SO EXCITED WHEN I GIVE HIM THIS PROJECT! [ i hope] :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted April 20, 2008 Author Share Posted April 20, 2008 I appreciate all the pictures .... Ime going to make something with 4x4s and a sledge ... will post pictures when ime done .. Ime figureing something simple with wood as the upright and base would be more time pereod correct... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 you might try a Bow, positioned above for a return, the closer to the head the rope is, the less it takes to return it to the up position. The bow was used a lot for spring pole lathes and foot powered up and down saws, by Woodworkers. Basic principle is a relly strong bow above with a douple string on it. similar to when kids of years ago put a string thru two holes of a button and it whirled back and forth as you tensioned and released the string, The button is replaced with a spool to apply lift to the tool and as it contracts the bow by twisting the 2 strings, the bow really doesn't move all that much. see drawing below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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