Dh12791 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Hello all, New to the forum and using forums in general for the most part so go easy on me. I am currently working on restoring a leg vice and thout id ask for yalls help trying to identify it. I found it buried in the ground in Monmouth County New Jersey and finally got the darn thing apart today. Excited to see what everyone has to say. If I can add any other pictures to aid in identifying this beast please let me know. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dh12791 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 The jaws are 5 1/4" I am thinking Columbian from what I have read through and seen so far on the interwebs. Does this sound about right? I am still very curious as to year it was made because i noticed a lot of Columbians with not so decorative or as curvy a screw end (Columbians, as far as i know, are supposed to have curvy ends) which I'm assuming got lost with mass manufacturing techniques. Also it seems like parts of it are cast iron which will break pretty easily if I were to use it for a lot of hammering. My plan is to sand blast it, do a little grinding, torch weld as many divets as possible and give it another finish grind/ polishing then keep it looking good for as long as i live with coats of oil. Still looking forward to everyones thoughts and opinions as to whether or not I am on the right track identifying this thing. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaudry Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 My guess is maybe an older Columbian I'd skip the sandblasting and welding up the pits. Take a file or a sanding disc to any burrs or rough spots that keep anything from moving freely. This would be the area under the washer and the leg pivot point. The vise has a great patina from age and use, no need to try and make it look like new Clean the threads of the screw and the inside of the screw box with a toothbrush and some solvent. Oil everything up when you put it back together and keep it oiled in use. Nothing on that vise is cast, the bench mount plate was drop forged and may show a parting line that makes it look like a casting . Mount it to a solid post or bench and put it to work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dh12791 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 I agree with not making it look new. The reason I say fill in divets is because it was literally underground for god knows how long with just the smallest part of it sticking out for me to trip on so some are a little deeper than normal patina and maybe would help strengthen the leg because of that? The one fall on the way home from a bar that I was happy about. Depending on how deep some really are after getting rid of rust I will consider leaving it as is and mabe just do moving/touching surfaces. Ahhh okay that's great to hear about the casting. Not a big fan of cast stuff in this type of application. Yes the reason I thought cast is because of what looked like a couple tabs or lines like you mentioned. I'm thinking a 1/2 steel plate big enough to give me good side to side and back and forth pulling without wanting to topple and a 6x6 post. And a couple raised casters to tilt and roll. Thanks for the input Beaudry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Note do NOT assume that the screwbox and screw and mounting plate *must* go to that vise. I've seen a bunch of "marriages" and have even done one myself moving good parts from a trashed vise to a good vise with a few bad parts. They may very well be original to the vise just no guarantee that they are. I'm on the side of let it show off it's history as well. Note have you revisited that site with a metal detector? May be more goodies buried there! I graduated from Holmdel High, Holmdel NJ are you still in that region? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dh12791 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 good call Thomas, Thanks for the input I am pretty sure they are all original because it did have a square bolt at pivot point which i understand is original on most. but the wedges did look shotty as if someone did some type of repair to something over time. I haven't gone back to the site because its on a main street with stores and such. Maybe itll be worth asking for permission. Either they let me look for more or they get me for making the hole in front which they probably wondered what it was from . Yes I graduated from and still live in Manasquan. My first thought was how awesome it would be if it was made in my area such as the historic and still operating Allaire State Park blacksmith shop and foundry or The Old Millstone Forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionel h Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 This looks like an early 1900 s Columbian vise by the shape. Looks like it was left sitting on the ground getting wet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dh12791 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 Thanks for the input Lionel much appreciated. And correction.....sitting UNDER the ground not quite "6 feet under" but well over 2 feet haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dh12791 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 Little update for anyone who cares. I came across a great page on leg vise restoration on anvilmag.com "Leg vises of the middle period were made from the early to mid 19th-century. These vises are still mostly hand forged, but incorporate major design improvements. The mounting plates are secured with a wrap-around clamp instead of a tenon, and pivot pins are threaded for a nut. Solid wrought iron screw boxes have replaced the composite ones of the early period." I think this describes the vise i have on hand pretty well so im thinking early 1900s Columbian. If anyone has anymore information Im happy to hear it all. Would be awesome to match it to an exact year or even model if that was a think when these were in production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 The old leg vises were made from wrought iron. Most had no mfg info on them. When removing rust, the best way I found was to use Evaporust. For large items you can make a container out of visqueen & 2x4s to submerge it in solution. Another good rust remover is molasses & water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dh12791 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 Thanks Irondragon. I have never tried i will have to give them both a shot. Have you ever heard of mustforrust? If not you gotta check it out. Im not sure of the chemical makeup but it is sold at walmart supposedly eco friendly and works really well. It leaves a whiteish residue almost like aluminum oxidation that can either be wiped or rinsed off or painted right over. I have never tried painting over it but have used it to remove rust many times Supposedly also removes bluing feom firearms or anything else that may be blued but havent tried that either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 I've never tried it but the safety data sheet leads me to not use it. The Evaporust has no acid in it. https://www.rustoleum.com/MSDS/ENGLISH/MR086.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dh12791 Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 Good call. Gotta love those msds sheets. They never wanna tell you on the packaging but if you know where to look...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dh12791 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just a lil update for anyone who cares. Finally got the keyed screw box out of the main leg and discovered a number 2 stamped on it. So thats two markings ive found so far. The other was what seems to be a "3" on the bottom of the mounting plate. Maybe this will narrow it down even more specifically somehow? Anyone else out there have what seems to be the same vise? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaudry Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 ''I'm thinking a 1/2 steel plate big enough to give me good side to side and back and forth pulling without wanting to topple and a 6x6 post. And a couple raised casters to tilt and roll. '' If you want to get full useful value from a vise like this [or any vise ], skip the mobile stand and bolt the vise to a solid heavy bench anchored into the floor and/ or wall or to a heavy post sunk into the ground or bolted to the floor. Hammering, twisting and and reefing hard on a piece clamped in the vise is the daily diet of a tool like that and I've yet to see any kind of moveable stand that can really take it without moving. A lot of your energy goes to waste if every hit or pull makes it wobble, even a little bit. Same goes for an anvil. Just my 2 cents, based on a lot of years of experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dh12791 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 Beaudry i totally agree. Ive been contemplating it. Did a little triangular math the other day and to give good enough support a steel plate base would be ridiculously large haha maybe ill core my concrete floor and poor a little high strength grought around a beam or something. I appreciate your wisdom. While Im at it Im gonna throw a picture of tongs on here im sure someone knows right away whattheyre for buti havent the slightest clue. Please let me know if its frowned upon to double up a topic like so. They spread rather then pinch when grasped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaudry Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 A good mount for a vise is a steel post [ I beam , square or rectangular tube or heavy pipe] welded to a 12'' x 12'' x 1/2'' base plate with a hole in each corner . Weld a piece of plate to the top to mount the vise to. Weld a short piece of pipe , coupling or a big nut as a receiver for the foot of the leg. Anchor the the stand to the floor with 1/2'' lag bolts screwed into lag shields [ if it's a concrete slab] drilled and set even with the floor. This allows you to remove the stand if you change your mind or need the room for something else. If you did an accurate layout with the holes in the base plate , you can rotate the plate so the vise faces various directions. Make a plywood pattern of the plate and bolt layout for future reference for interchangeable mounts for other tools as the need arises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Or sink a chunk of large sq structural tubing and drop a nesting section into it to mount the vise on. You can put several in at various places in the shop and put a cap on the ones not in use. I'm working on doing that with one in the middle of the shop's driveway for when I need to swing a full 20' stick of steel around the vise. My main heavy hammering vise is a 6.5" one and is mounted to a the telephone pole (well half of a 40' pole), that holds up the roof truss. The pole is sunk 5' into the subsoil and concreted in. Very stable but heavy hammering drives the steel roof and wall; luckily I live in the country... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaudry Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 12 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: Or sink a chunk of large sq structural tubing and drop a nesting section into it to mount the vise on. You can put several in at various places in the shop and put a cap on the ones not in use. I'm working on doing that with one in the middle of the shop's driveway for when I need to swing a full 20' stick of steel around the vise. How do you keep the vise post from wobbling in use even if it's a close fit into the tube ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 If it has enough clearance to wobble: pull out wedges tapped in tight but with a handle to remove then when necessary. Think tapered upside down L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 15 hours ago, Dh12791 said: While Im at it Im gonna throw a picture of tongs on here im sure someone knows right away whattheyre for buti havent the slightest clue. To me those look like valve spring compressor tongs, use on the old flat head engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMike Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I'd guess the tongs look like they are designed to hold something apart and not to grab something. they have steps in the fork on the outside to keep the work from pulling through. the forks spread when gripped. in the case of a spring it would stretch it rather than compress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 No, in the old flat head engines the tongs go between the block and valve spring collar compressing the spring so the keepers are taken out (kinda hard to explain). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 That Picture says it all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMike Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Ahhh. forgot about that. I stand corrected. I am old, but didn't work on many flat heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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