Looking for information

[Morris]

Found this hornless anvil. It weighs 180 pounds. Am trying to learn about it. It has a small hole on each end, also has two small holes in the middle of the front. It still has an awesome ring to it. I haven't found any distinguishing marks on it. Any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome to the forum Morris, if you will add your location to your profile you may be surprised how many members are near you and a lot of answers are location dependent.

As far as the anvil goes it's a nice find. I can't give you any definitive answers but an educated guess or two. The shape is like a saw makers anvil however the bottom looks like it may have been an anvil for a very large steam hammer. I'm sure the anvil experts will be along to give more information in short order.

ps: where in the world is it located?

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Morris, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the gang live within visiting distance. 

Nice anvil though I don't know what kind. It looks like it mounts to a base perhaps an Oliver. Just guessing mind you. Somebody who actually knows will be along I'm sure.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Charcold]

Another uneducated guess for powerhammer base. While completely dissimilar in shape and size I have a 80 lb power hammer base that i use as an anvil that's got a heck of a ring to it as well. The two small holes could be for pins that hold it in place. The end holes could serve a purpose for removing it and/or moving it around. Or could simply be handling holes from when it was forged. 

All just guesses, I'm sure someone will come along with more concrete insight soon. 

[John R]

I have a similar one that weighs 200 pounds.

It is the bottom anvil for a steam or air hammer.    Mine was a spare for a large hammer that was still in operation in a paper mill.

The two holes in the ends?    For sticking a piece of  round bar about 2 feet into.    Then the smith and his apprentice could lift the bottom anvil out of the drop hammer via using the rods as handles.  One man on each handle.

The slot on the bottom front was likely used for a key that indexed the anvil to the machine frame and kept it in place, the angled cut on the bottom back was for driving in a tapered wedge to hold the anvil tight.

[Morris]

8 hours ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

Welcome to the forum Morris, if you will add your location to your profile you may be surprised how many members are near you and a lot of answers are location dependent.

As far as the anvil goes it's a nice find. I can't give you any definitive answers but an educated guess or two. The shape is like a saw makers anvil however the bottom looks like it may have been an anvil for a very large steam hammer. I'm sure the anvil experts will be along to give more information in short order.

ps: where in the world is it located?

Thanks for the info. Location is Plant City, FL

6 hours ago, John R said:

I have a similar one that weighs 200 pounds.

It is the bottom anvil for a steam or air hammer.    Mine was a spare for a large hammer that was still in operation in a paper mill.

I have had and seen many anvils, but none with no horn. should there be a mark anywhere on it?  How would someone put a value on it?

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I think John R nailed it, a steam hammer anvil. It will serve you well mounted to a solid base. Up here we just use tree stumps cut to the proper length.

[Morris]

How could you tell the age of it? I have had numerous anvils, but all have had markings of some sort to discern the age.

[Fatfudd]

Unless you can figure out what it was originally used for and what it was attached to your guess will be as good as anyone else's.

there is really no other way to know. Sorry.

[C-1ToolSteel]

Well, being that it is more of a part of something than its own unit, chances are probably slim that there would be markings on it. 

Anvil collectors and lots of newbies (from watching Forged In Fire) are what is driving up the anvil market right now. Chances are, collectors wouldn't be interested, and, sadly, most newbies wouldn't either, as they are usually set strictly on the London pattern. That said, It would still make a fantastic anvil. 

[Judson Yaggy]

Please note that there is a BIG difference between a power hammer DIE and a power hammer ANVIL or base as named above.  That looks to be a die that dovetails into the anvil (or tup) given the shape and reported ring, indicating a hardened steel item.  Steam or self contained air hammer anvils weigh many thousands of pounds or many many tons depending on the size of hammer, and they are almost always made of cast iron.  Your 180# hunk of steel is in line with what would be expected for a larger power hammer die.  

While being a perfectly usable anvil, it's not a classic London pattern shape and will not be sought after by collectors or beginners who are driving the high anvil prices we are currently seeing.  The remaining blacksmiths are users who might like a good bit of tool steel like that but probably already have a good anvil or two and need to pay the rent/mortgage this month.  

Value on the market:  double or tripple scrap price. Value if you want to learn blacksmithing: priceless.  

[John R]

Here ya go, photos of mine.    It has been stored in a shed since about 1991, the last time I operated my forge and made knives.  I would say over 100 knives have been across this thing.    For knife making I like it more than a regular London pattern anvil.    It has incredible rebound, it is either cast or forged steel.

It is not a die, it is the bottom anvil.  It mounted in the base of the steam hammer and was held in place with tapered wedges.   Removable so special die shaped bottoms could be inserted in the Steam hammer.  The shop had a lot of special dies that actually clamped on the top of the  anvil, so the job of changing out the anvil for big 200 pound plus dies was avoided.   I actually ran the big steam hammer back in the 1990's, it was a brute.     I would love to have something like it but it just was too big and too expensive for a hobbist to run on steam or compressed air.    There was another one in the plant converted to compressed air.   Likely consumed 100 HP of air when it was running, it was fed with a 3 inch air pipe at 180 PSI.  I could forge out a big knife blank in a matter of minutes.

Note the two lifting rods I inserted in the holes, just for the photos:

 

It is mounted on a length of 12x18 creosoted timber.

This one has dovetails on both sides, note the 2X wood stock that is holding it down:  The 2X stock is tapered to match the taper of the anvil dovetails.

When I complete the new forging shed I will clean it up and mount it close to the forge, along with my three other anvils:

100 pound Vulcan

150 pound American Star, this one has been in my family since before the Civil War.   The family was poor dirt farmers in SE Georgia.  It was originally used to keep the horses shod and maintain farm implements.

And the prize, my 196 pound Soderfors:

 

[John R]

Another view of the Soderfors:

What I used to do:   Nothing fancy or artsy, just good 'ol working and hunting knives.  The four in the upper left are patterns.  I am anxious to return to forging blades!

 

[Morris]

14 hours ago, Judson Yaggy said:

Please note that there is a BIG difference between a power hammer DIE and a power hammer ANVIL or base as named above.  That looks to be a die that dovetails into the anvil (or tup) given the shape and reported ring, indicating a hardened steel item.  Steam or self contained air hammer anvils weigh many thousands of pounds or many many tons depending on the size of hammer, and they are almost always made of cast iron.  Your 180# hunk of steel is in line with what would be expected for a larger power hammer die.  

While being a perfectly usable anvil, it's not a classic London pattern shape and will not be sought after by collectors or beginners who are driving the high anvil prices we are currently seeing.  The remaining blacksmiths are users who might like a good bit of tool steel like that but probably already have a good anvil or two and need to pay the rent/mortgage this month.  

Value on the market:  double  or tripple scrap price. Value if you want to learn blacksmithing: priceless.  

appreciate the education, which is priceless. I do a lot of tractor shows and will be adding this to my display collection. When people ask about it, now, I can pass on the information. Thanks so much!