Tristan Spivey Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 If I use 2600f kaowool and 3000f refractory in a propane forge operating at 2900f melt the kaowool or does the refractory act as a insulator a little bit so the kaowool won't melt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Welcome aboard Tristan, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the iforge gang live within visiting distance. Yes, about 1/2" or a hard refractory as the flame face in a forge will preserve the Kaowool considerably. A good high alumina refractory will be unaffected by flux erosion as well. We've been discussing exactly this in the "Forges 101" thread, it's well worth the read most of your questions have probably been answered already but we're always happy to talk. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Are you actually working your forge above the melting point of steel? Or are you going off a flame temp and not the operating temp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 2750 F is the highest forge temperature I've heard of anyone reaching so far. Unless you are using oxygen enrichment, or burning propylene, a don't think you are achieving an internal temperature of 2900 F in your forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timgunn1962 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I've had a measured-with-photos 1545 degC, 2813 degF from a forge. The forge was a quick, dirty IFB construction made from some very cheap (probably Chinese) grade 23 bricks and a 1" burner based on an Amal atmospheric injector. I was experimenting with jet sizes and this was using a 0.6mm MIG tip (.024") with an actual ID between .029" and .031". A #69 drill would go but a #68 would not. Propane pressure would have been at maximum on a nominal 0-30 PSI regulator. No gauge. The chamber was 6" x 6" x 13.5" with the opening only about 3" x 3" at the time. It was built with a 5"H, 3"W front opening and a 3" x 3" rear opening and I'm pretty sure the rear opening was plugged with kaowool when the photo was taken. The front opening was reduced with a bit of JM23 IFB and the bottom pic shows how it melted. I have no doubt a forge temperature of 2900 degF is achievable, though I'd consider it unwise.. If the refractory hangs together at the temperature, the Kaowool behind it should survive ok. It doesn't actually melt until 3200 degF and only needs to retain enough strength and rigidity to keep the refractory in place. Always keep in mind that forge linings are consumable items. http://www.barteltinsulation.com/pdfs/CERAMICBLANKET.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 And the calibration used? (I used to have to go over the calibration records for ISO9001 certification....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timgunn1962 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Effectively none. The thermocouple was a type S removed from a Landfill gas burner I decommissioned. Type S is generally considered stable and an uncalibrated type S is a lot more useful to me than no type S. The readout was the cheapest thing I could find which would take types K, N, R and S. I did check it against the "calibrator" at work, but even that does not have traceable calibration back to National standards. To be fair, I don't get the impression many of us on IFI are working to ISO9001 or similar and most of us understand that there is an uncertainty in any measurement. For example, the chamber dimensions I gave above are based on nominal 9" x 4.5" x 3" IFBs and I'd expect most smiths to be ok with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristan Spivey Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 Welcome aboard Tristan, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the iforge gang live within visiting distance. Yes, about 1/2" or a hard refractory as the flame face in a forge will preserve the Kaowool considerably. A good high alumina refractory will be unaffected by flux erosion as well. We've been discussing exactly this in the "Forges 101" thread, it's well worth the read most of your questions have probably been answered already but we're always happy to talk. Frosty The Lucky. How do I put my general location and how do I find the forges 101 thread Are any of y'all from oklahoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Click on your avatar or name. Select "edit profile" from the menu at the upper right of the window that opens. make the changes you like and save. This should link you to the latest page of the "forges 101" thread. https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/47439-forges-101/?page=20&tab=comments#comment-559930 To search Iforge, forget the site search engine, it's not so good. Just include "Iforgeiron" in the search terms on your favorite search engine and it'll find what's here. I searched, "Forges 101 iforge" for the above link. See you there. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 When people get "specific" I just have to ask about calibration. I especially get twitchy when folks start throwing around PSI on their regulators as I know that the cheap gauges on cheap propane set ups are notorious about being off, especially after getting bounced around a bit. They do make it easy to get to a reasonably close previous setting on that particular burner; but not very good comparing different burners. ISO9001 certification was "interesting" as we were a section of Bell Labs producing the software that the 800 number system ran on. We were one of the first software groups to be certified and the auditors had problems as they were used to hardware producing factories. They were scratching their heads on how to judge software releases. I was on the lab team then and they jumped like a chicken on a junebug on things they did understand---like calibration of lab equipment and test tools. What I did learn is that ISO is NOT a quality system in my opinion. It is concerned with things being reproducible not high quality: If your documented customer complaint process was to send thugs with baseball bats to break the knees of the complainer; then ISO was perfectly happy if you could show documentation that all complainers were in wheelchairs due to knee injuries...(Now Deming and Shewhart would argue that having your process under control is the first step to improving the quality of it...) (Malcom Baldrige was more concerned with if you had *good* process rather than just perfect adherence to a possible bad process.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Thank you Tim. I stand happily updated Are you going to show these photos, and give us a little article on your forge build, in the Forges 101 thread? People wanting to build a brick forge are in especial need of such updating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristan Spivey Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 Hey do any of you know what’s the best website to buy 3000f refractory and kaowool in the us because im new and I don’t know where I should buy it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Mr wayne coe sells everything you need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristan Spivey Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 do I just look up mr Wayne coe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Google waynecoe artist blacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristan Spivey Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 K cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81pistolsfiring Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Hey Bud. You ever find yourself out towards Thalequah I highly suggest you reach out Ray Kirk. Great guy and always willing to help, especially kids. He's a family friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristan Spivey Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share Posted October 2, 2017 cool cause im only 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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