Jay.bro Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Get guys I'm just getting interested in bladesmithing and I'm wanting some more info on how to start out and if my plans for my forge will serve the purpose and what materials to use. I wanted to get some input on building a side draft forge, if I can use wood as a fuel, and what the best strongest steels I can get from my local scrapyard to use like what materials to get I've heard coil springs are good and I know I want a strong carbon steel but I do plan on building my forge to be manual bellows and I also would like to know what all tools I need to get to get started. any and all info is appreciated I plan on it just being a weekend hobby but I want to be able to craft any kind of blade by the time I'm done with everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Jay, Welcome to the forum. You've come to the right place, but you have a fair amount of reading to do that will answer most of the questions you've asked. Head to the solid fuels forge section and read the thread with "Just a box of dirt" in the title to get a good handle on side draft forges. You'll also find a few topics regarding using wood as fuel. Asking what the "best" anything here without a lot of qualifiers tends to bring out the curmudgeon in a number of people here. That will depend on the specific use of the blade and preferences that you and/or your customers have. Bladesmithing is a specialized area of blacksmithing. You can dive in head first if you want, but if you've never hammered hot steel before you may find your frustration level high and your success level low for a while. Generally it is recommended that you join a local blacksmith organization and get some face to face hammer time in with someone who can teach you the basics before moving into bladesmithing. I can't recommend strongly enough that you grab a comfy chair, a cold beverage of your choice, and some snacks and then spend a few hours reading the topics that interest you the most. Nearly any question you can think of as a beginner has probably been asked and answered in detail multiple times on the forum, but you do have to dig a little. The search function on the site isn't the best, so we often recommend that you do a web search with "iforgeiron" as part of your key phrase in your searches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Arkansas! Have you looked into the American Bladesmith Society school located in that state? Attending some classes will be the fastest way to climb the learning curve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-1ToolSteel Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 A lot of people get side DRAFT confused with side BLAST. Side DRAFT is where the chimney draws smoke sideways from the tuyere. Side BLAST is where the air blows from the side of the tuyere instead of the bottom and has nothing to do with the chimney. If you want to build a side DRAFT forge, I would be glad to share all the info you need of how I built mine. Here's a pic of my side draft forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay.bro Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 as far as wood goes i was really wondering about large pine knots because in open fires they burn very hot and for a long time and i pulled up a diagram when i first started researching that seemed the easiest to build for my skill set and universally adaptable ill attach the image and ive been trying to research more but everything i find is about ordering steel online not using scrap steel and i dont know what scrap steels have the highest amount of carbon in them but i know you can use coil springs and leaf springs just from watching forged in fire but im not even sure where to start on finding materials from the scrap yard and i dont know if its legal to walk the railroad tracks to find materials since theres one right across the street from my house and i can visibly see spikes and chopped track and brackets laying along it from my yard and as far as the academy goes my wife is pregnant and due in a few months so i dont think thats really an option at this point but it could be a future one. but i really enjoy the idea of crafting blades. i used to design them for friends in high school most people used metal rasps to make them but i also want to get a stone grinding wheel and do things completely by hand and show complete dedication to my work. like i said i havent even built my forge yet so i just want to learn as much as i can before i am able to build it and end up wasting a lot of time and materials having no knowledge. anyways here is the forge design i found. oh and once i get everything set up i intend on attempting an iklwa as my first project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Using steel like coil and leaf springs can and likely will lead to failures that could potentially kill the person using the blade or someone too close by when it fails. Even if you get lucky and find low mileage springs you will probably still have mystery steel and have no idea how to go about heat treatment to make the most of it. I'm not saying I've never used mystery steel, truth is I have ~50 pounds of mystery steel I'm using for various projects but none of which are knives or swords. I would suggest waiting on the iklwa until you have a few successful knives. A double edge blade isn't going to be the easiest first project. Hopefully you'll realize I'm not trying to be hateful, I'm just trying to point out a couple little things I feel are important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-1ToolSteel Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Blacksmith rule #1: don't try to LEARN anything from Forged in Fire! Forged in Fire is for entertainment and the longer you've been blacksmithing the more intertaining it gets! Unfortunately, a lot of modern coil springs are made of medium carbon steel that has been super quenched. (not ideal for a knife) Leaf springs are hard to forge into anything but a gigantic bowie, and often have micro cracks in them. Older coil springs should be better steel. Some of mine are stamped 5160. As far as the forge goes, that is a decent design, but it obviously leaves out a lot of construction info. I would go with a hand crank blower unless you already have a traditional bellows. If your interested, I can send a series of progress pictures of what I did to throw out some more ideas. As far as fuel goes, wood is a viable option but anything ''big'' will leave air gaps that will keep you from getting a hot enough fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay.bro Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 i fully understand i didnt mean as a literal first project i know im going to have to work out a lot of smaller projects before attempting something like that i meant as my first big project and like i said im nowhere near the knowledge id like to be for finding scrap materials that are good to use ive been wondering about using worn tamping bars and rebar but again im still trying to figure out the basic things i need to learn to do as much as i can. i really just need knowledge and what to start with for viable materials. also i thought about getting some steel and practicing rolling it and folding it. my grandfather told me that was how old time blacksmiths made the steel and metals they used stronger and removed impurities but he was a welder and never really messed with smithing, though he wanted to. i actually considered using brass to practice my hammering and shaping before moving up to steel but again being new and trying to research and finding very little information is causing questions to come to mind about the idea of that. and yes c-1tool steel i would appreciate the knowledge you can show me as to how you built your forge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I think that C-1 and Michael advised you well. You don't want to make a blade out some steel you have no idea what the alloy composition is, try to heat treat it with what you conjecture the metal to be, and then end up selling it. The results could be catastrophic to yourself, and or to the public: Breaking Katana Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay.bro Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 i have a forge idea and another question. my idea is im thinking about building the forge from stone instead of brick what are the pros and cons of that? and can you compress wood ash to make charcoal briquettes i keep searching the question but it keeps saying it can be used for annealing but nothing about forming briquettes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Ash is the expended remnants of trees or charcoal. How are you going to make charcoal from from used up biomass? Yes, ash and vermiculite allow for a slow cool, that's why they are used for annealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay.bro Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 okay i was wondering about that i am still trying to learn what i can before diving in head first i know i intend to use wood for fuel but i keep reading in my research most people use charcoal or propane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcornell Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 5 hours ago, Jay.bro said: i have a forge idea and another question. my idea is im thinking about building the forge from stone instead of brick what are the pros and cons of that? and can you compress wood ash to make charcoal briquettes i keep searching the question but it keeps saying it can be used for annealing but nothing about forming briquettes Stone can be used, but if you're using solid fuel, the better question is what you're using for a fire pot, how much air you're getting into the bottom of the fire, how you're keeping clinker and ash from choking your fire, etc. Take a look at the fire pots manufactured by Dave Custer (who I believe is active on this board - otherwise look on FB) to see pretty much state-of-the-art setup for solid fuel, whether it's charcoal, coke or coal. Me, I'm a propane guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Stone can be a problem as some types explode when heated. Loss of eyes has been known to happen. For Real! Now if you have access to types of stone that are heat stable then no problem. Most set up use any old stone for the base and then line it with fire safe fire bricks in a thick enough layer that it doesn't have any problems. As for charcoal it's the fuel in use for the longest time starting from the beginning of the iron age through today. Many 3rd world blacksmiths still use it as it's easily produced most anywhere. Briquettes being mostly NOT charcoal are not a good fuel. Go with chunk charcoal. Charcoal takes very little air flow so make sure you can meter your blast well. A blowdryer will produce hugely more air than even a major charcoal forge will need! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 You can make your own charcoal - it's a bit of work, but doesn't have anything to do with packing together wood ash. Google "making your own lump charcoal". You'll find a lot of info on it. Mod addition, or read the pinned posts here on making your own charcoal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-1ToolSteel Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Here's what I did. I'm definitely not an expert, but hopefully this will help give you some more ideas. To make it more ''deluxe'', you could pour a concrete base for it and use a cast iron tuyere instead of castable refractory. I already had the bricks, so the goal for me was to make a brick forge on the cheap (I spent less than $200 on the whole forge),not to out-forge every blacksmith in the world. It heats the steel and draws the smoke and it's not exactly an eyesore, which is all that matters to me. Good luck with yours! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun71 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Awesome! Im a total beginner to blacksmithing but experienced in building.... are you not a wee bit close to that one wooden pole? After firing up my forge I was amazed at the radiant heat. Over time that pole will carbonize from the repetitive heating and either burst into flames or fail structurally... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay.bro Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 Thanks c1 out of curiosity what would you guys suggest for a fire pot cause I'm not sure of much on what I'm doing on any of this another quick question of I can't get an anvil right out the gate can I use a chunk of railroad track Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Let me rephrase that for you: "I can't get a london pattern anvil right out of the gate can I use an anvil as an anvil?" Remember that the london pattern anvil got it's last feature about 200 years ago. Meanwhile folks have been forging on blocks of steel, wrought iron or even stone for over 2000 years. Take a look at the anvil the swordsmith is using on "Living Treasures of Japan" National Geographic (all on youtube last I checked) You can also find videos of a kukri forger who uses a large sledge hammer head as his anvil. If you are hung up on the london pattern anvil Weygers' "The complete Modern Blacksmith" has an entire chapter on taking a piece of RR Rail and making it into one, including heat treat! I prefer some of the vertically oriented versions shown on this site myself, especially the ones where they create a hardie and fuller by grinding on the web. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-1ToolSteel Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 On October 28, 2016 at 6:39 AM, Shogun71 said: Awesome! Im a total beginner to blacksmithing but experienced in building.... are you not a wee bit close to that one wooden pole? After firing up my forge I was amazed at the radiant heat. Over time that pole will carbonize from the repetitive heating and either burst into flames or fail structurally... Yeah that isn't ideal, but i put a 55 gallon drum lid in front of that post to keep away direct contact from flames. Structurally, that post doesn't serve any purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Benson Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 C-1 That is a beautiful forge, this is very similar to what I want to build for my shop area. Do you have a picture of how you routed the air flow pipe for the blower underneath? And I see you leave it flat would a lip around the outside be a good or bad idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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