Anvil identification

[Gorō]

Hey there fellas

just picked up this gem this weekend. I saw a Soderfers and John Brooks anvil but I liked this one better but I've got no idea what anvil maker branding is it.

It says 2 1 4 which is 256lbs

Im guessing it's a John Brooks. I know it's not a Peter Wright or Soderfers

 

Cheers

[Pac]

Looks like a Mousehole/Hill/Foster English style anvil, just my guess.

What was wrong with the other anvils that you chose this one? Just curious

[Yuppiejr]

Not everyone favors cast steel anvils over the cast iron/tool steel face variety, I've got an American Wrought 96 pounder that will throw the hammer back in your face as hard as any Soderfers without any of the crazy loud ringing.  A 1" ball bearing dropped from 10" bounces 9 - 9.5" from any point on the face... best rebounding anvil I've worked on and was priced right due to some edge chipping (and the fact that it wasn't a Peter Wright/Hay Buddin/etc..). 

I'm guessing he got a much better deal per pound on this one than the Soderfers since it's got more obvious wear and is harder to price without positive maker identification.  As long as it rebound tested well and doesn't have any major cracks or bits falling off I might be inclined to do the same thing, smaller anvils are easier to find than big ones in my experience.

[Gorō]

3 hours ago, Pac said:

Looks like a Mousehole/Hill/Foster English style anvil, just my guess.

What was wrong with the other anvils that you chose this one? Just curious

Size and weight. There was a John Brooks which was one inch longer same weight and everything but when I did the rebound test....nothing....

got a hammer and hit it softly to hear if it rings but only times I could hear the ring was near the hardy hole. 

I'm thinking of cleaning it up abit and welding the edges to fill the cracks and dents

[Pac]

58 minutes ago, Peter Bui said:

Size and weight. There was a John Brooks which was one inch longer same weight and everything but when I did the rebound test....nothing....

got a hammer and hit it softly to hear if it rings but only times I could hear the ring was near the hardy hole. 

I'm thinking of cleaning it up abit and welding the edges to fill the cracks and dents

Thanks. I was asking because I had a PW and Mouse Hole, but never got the chance to see a John Brooks. Personally, I like them and would probably snatch the first one in decent condition.

Sucks to hear about the brooks anvil you came across, but it looks like you made a great choice! When you clean her up post pics of the markings again so someone can verify for you...

[Gorō]

I've been told and read/watched online that welding on the face of the anvil makes it soft and can crack....some people have advised that I pre heat with oxy torch 

[Pac]

Read up here before doing anything concerning messing with the anvil face, then read some more. Questions have been asked and answered many times on here...

[stan]

I don`t think the markings on the anvil  are 2 1 4,but are 2- number worn off- 14, the missing or had to see number may be a -0- which would mean the weight is as you say. Put it on the bathroom scales just for interest.

[Gorō]

33 minutes ago, stan said:

I don`t think the markings on the anvil  are 2 1 4,but are 2- number worn off- 14, the missing or had to see number may be a -0- which would mean the weight is as you say. Put it on the bathroom scales just for interest.

Any idea on what kind of anvil it is?

I will have to weigh it again. But the seller has advised me it's 115-120kg and it was still quite heavy even for a 2 man job I would believe.

 

cheers.

[Yuppiejr]

Didn't mouse hole forge put dots between their hundredweight values?

 Third word is WARRANTED

I keep thinking the last word is SOUTHAMPTON?

 

I washed your photo through a few filters and just can't get anything more.

Honestly you are going to need to clean up that side of the anvil (a wire brush & some sort of dishsoap)... and then let it dry and try to rub chalk over the area where the letters are stamped so you can photograph it from a few angles to see if anyone can make out any letters... with all those chisel marks and what look like pretty shallow stamps it's going to be really hard to nail down what's stamped there.  Maybe hold a bit of thin paper to the side and do a pencil or chalk rubbing and see what that reveals?

[stan]

Could be a William froster but that's only a guess, there is a lot of old English makers that look similar,as Yuppiejr says clean it up then start recording all the information you can make out, there are guys on IFI that  would be able to tell you more. In the end it doesn`t really matter that much,just use it.one other thing though ,you may want to wear a respirator until the rust has been removed from the face because the rust dust can really irritate you airways cheers.

[Gorō]

6 hours ago, stan said:

Could be a William froster but that's only a guess, there is a lot of old English makers that look similar,as Yuppiejr says clean it up then start recording all the information you can make out, there are guys on IFI that  would be able to tell you more. In the end it doesn`t really matter that much,just use it.one other thing though ,you may want to wear a respirator until the rust has been removed from the face because the rust dust can really irritate you airways cheers.

Cheers Stan

That probably explains why I'm so crook....

 

I've left the anvil in Newcastle will give it a nice clean when I have time. I'm thinking of getting a oxy torch to pre heat and arc weld and smooth the edges on the face abit aswell. I might as well...

[Yuppiejr]

What functional problem are you looking to fix with the anvil by welding up new edges and the face?  

I'm just having a problem following the logic so I'm trying to understand why you would choose this anvil over others in better condition, only to turn around and propose making cosmetic repairs that could permanently ruin the functional use of the tool.  I've seen and worked on anvils in worse shape and they move metal just fine.. have you actually forged anything on it yet?  

That anvil's not in bad shape at all, rather than risk your whole investment and potentially ruin an anvil that another smith might be able to put to good use (you indicated they are fairly rare in AU as it is) why not just sell it and buy the Soderfors you looked at originally which was in nearly perfect condition?

[Gorō]

19 hours ago, Yuppiejr said:

What functional problem are you looking to fix with the anvil by welding up new edges and the face?  

I'm just having a problem following the logic so I'm trying to understand why you would choose this anvil over others in better condition, only to turn around and propose making cosmetic repairs that could permanently ruin the functional use of the tool.  I've seen and worked on anvils in worse shape and they move metal just fine.. have you actually forged anything on it yet?  

That anvil's not in bad shape at all, rather than risk your whole investment and potentially ruin an anvil that another smith might be able to put to good use (you indicated they are fairly rare in AU as it is) why not just sell it and buy the Soderfors you looked at originally which was in nearly perfect condition?

I haven't used the anvil yet. I choose this one over the soderfers because of the size and weight.

i just throught that the face of the anvil with dents and cracks on the edge could be welded and smoothed out to look brand new again that's all.

[Yuppiejr]

3 hours ago, Peter Bui said:

I haven't used the anvil yet. I choose this one over the soderfers because of the size and weight.

i just throught that the face of the anvil with dents and cracks on the edge could be welded and smoothed out to look brand new again that's all.

When it comes to anvils, function > looks.   I don't think anyone here is trying to bust your chops for the sake of it, myself included, that anvil just looks like it's in good shape and the minor dents/cracks you describe are part of it's history and patina that don't impact how well it will let you move steel.  If you hit it with a welder you are likely going to ruin the heat treatment of surrounding areas of the face plate which will negatively impact it's rebound and allow it to crack/break even worse.

Give that anvil a good wire brushing and scrub it down with a solution of simple green and then hose it off if you want to take the surface layers of rust and dirt off, then give it a coating of oil or wax to protect it from rust and then hit some hot steel on the face.  It's a good size anvil with some honest character and wear all it's own that will serve you for a lifetime of smithing as it sits.

[Gorō]

48 minutes ago, Yuppiejr said:

When it comes to anvils, function > looks.   I don't think anyone here is trying to bust your chops for the sake of it, myself included, that anvil just looks like it's in good shape and the minor dents/cracks you describe are part of it's history and patina that don't impact how well it will let you move steel.  If you hit it with a welder you are likely going to ruin the heat treatment of surrounding areas of the face plate which will negatively impact it's rebound and allow it to crack/break even worse.

Give that anvil a good wire brushing and scrub it down with a solution of simple green and then hose it off if you want to take the surface layers of rust and dirt off, then give it a coating of oil or wax to protect it from rust and then hit some hot steel on the face.  It's a good size anvil with some honest character and wear all it's own that will serve you for a lifetime of smithing as it sits.

Ok cheers. 

Was thinking of using hcl to wipe it down then a wire brush with the angle grinder.

[Phoenix Fire Forges]

Could anyone tell me the brand of this anvil, I'm sure it's a hay budden 150lb, seller wants $250 for it with the tools, tongs and cobblers. Let me know if it's worth the price.

[Gorō]

Nice anvil mate

[George Geist]

Absolutely! Buy it! Is a nice horseshoers pattern. You'll be glad you did especially at that price.

George

[Phoenix Fire Forges]

Would it be good enough for knife-making?

[jmccustomknives]

11 minutes ago, Phoenix Fire Forges said:

Would it be good enough for knife-making?

Sure.  There isn't anything wrong with that.  Remember, you can always make hardie tools to help you.

 

[Phoenix Fire Forges]

8 hours ago, jmccustomknives said:

Sure.  There isn't anything wrong with that.  Remember, you can always make hardie tools to help you.

 

What kind hardie tools would be good for it?

[jmccustomknives]

That's going to depend on what kind of knives you intend to make.  I have a demo anvil similar.  A flat plate for straitening my blades.  A bottom fuller, spring fuller and a pair of vice grips that set in the hardie for holding my work.

You'll have to work out your own style, your tooling will reflect that.

[timgunn1962]

On 28/09/2016 at 1:47 AM, Yuppiejr said:

Didn't mouse hole forge put dots between their hundredweight values?

 Third word is WARRANTED

I keep thinking the last word is SOUTHAMPTON?

 

I washed your photo through a few filters and just can't get anything more.

Honestly you are going to need to clean up that side of the anvil (a wire brush & some sort of dishsoap)... and then let it dry and try to rub chalk over the area where the letters are stamped so you can photograph it from a few angles to see if anyone can make out any letters... with all those chisel marks and what look like pretty shallow stamps it's going to be really hard to nail down what's stamped there.  Maybe hold a bit of thin paper to the side and do a pencil or chalk rubbing and see what that reveals?

I think Wolverhampton seems more likely than Southampton: Wolverhampton is in the Black Country which is/was an area well-known for its iron industry. Wolverhampton is about 20 miles from Ironbridge. 

Pigot's listed 2 anvil makers there in 1828-9.

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/1828-29_Pigot's_Directory:_Wolverhampton

[Phoenix Fire Forges]

8 minutes ago, jmccustomknives said:

That's going to depend on what kind of knives you intend to make.  I have a demo anvil similar.  A flat plate for straitening my blades.  A bottom fuller, spring fuller and a pair of vice grips that set in the hardie for holding my work.

You'll have to work out your own style, your tooling will reflect that.

Thank you for the advice, from what I can see its definently a forged anvil. I'm going to look today and will let you know if I bought it, clean it up and take better pictures so we can identify it easier.