Need a 4x4 anvil

[Harry L]

I am looking for an anvil with 4x4 surface area, hardness  >55 Rockwell C. If you are capable to forge one, please contact me. Thank you. 

[ThomasPowers]

No forge needed just buy a piece of 4" sq stock of an alloy that can be heat treated and have it heat treated.

[Black Frog]

I'm in no way associated with them but:

Old World Anvils offers a 4"x4"x4" cube anvil made from 4140, heat treated and top face ground.

$95, Free shipping.

[ThomasPowers]

For blacksmithing I would go with their stake version of the 4x4

Of course for a small anvil like that I might hunt down a 20# sledgehammer head for a lot less money...

[Harry L]

Thanks for all replies. I will use the anvil to cold hammer mild steal. Old World Anvil said their 4x4x4 anvil has surface hardness in mid 40s Rockwell C. Will that be sufficient? I am worried that if I miss blow, I will ding the surface pretty badly. 

[ThomasPowers]

What are you making?  I'd spend less than 1/2 the cost of their block and get a sledge hammer head; but do be sure to get a hardened one if you are buying new.  Buying used can be less than US$20 in my experience.  Most old sledges I have used are quite hard and dinging them would be impressive on your part.

Stop by and I can loan you one to try out for a while.

[the iron dwarf]

several block anvils at my place but you did not answer when I told you in the chat a few minutes ago

[Harry L]

I will use the hammer to thin down mild steel blank (and copper blank) and create certain hammer pattern thereon. Because the mild steel sheet is normally 3+" width, a 4x4 surface anvil would be ideal.

[ThomasPowers]

how will you be annealing the work pieces?  Stop by, I have a chunk of 4x4x8 steel you could borrow and trial and if you like it I get them at the local scrapyard for about US$16

[Harry L]

I live in Washington DC area . But thanks Thomas for the nice offer!

And as to annealing, I do not anneal the work piece. It is preferable that the work piece remain hardened. 

[ThomasPowers]

so can you explain what you are making?

[Harry L]

Tsuba (Japanese sword guard) as well as other artistic metal plates using similar techniques.

1 hour ago, the iron dwarf said:

several block anvils at my place but you did not answer when I told you in the chat a few minutes ago

 

3 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

so can you explain what you are making?

@ThomasPowers Tsuba (Japanese sword guard) as well as other artistic metal plates using similar techniques.

@the iron dwarf, sorry I did not receive a chat message from you so I am not sure what did you ask. I hope the above answers your question as well. 

[ThomasPowers]

Need some real wrought iron?  I'm familiar with tsuba, I spent a year working under a custom swordmaker that was one of the few in the USA making Japanese blades at that time, (late '70's early '80's).  You probably need a small coffee can forge to make your own chisels and repousse tools...

[Harry L]

8 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Need some real wrought iron?  I'm familiar with tsuba, I spent a year working under a custom swordmaker that was one of the few in the USA making Japanese blades at that time, (late '70's early '80's).  You probably need a small coffee can forge to make your own chisels and repousse tools...

I have a bunch of chisels and tools to make other repousse tools. But don't have a good anvil. I agree that I probably do not need a forged anvil. If someone can heat treat W1 or O1, that would be perfect as well. I can buy a block and hire him to heat treat it for me. 

[ThomasPowers]

So you need an anvil of a much higher quality than the Japanese Masters used; can you tell me why?

[Harry L]

I need an anvil that will not ding when I miss a blow. So the anvil preferably should be harder than my hammer. I am not sure what a Japanese tsuba master used. 

[ThomasPowers]

skill and experience!

you can also draw the temper further on the hammer.  I have one hammer that is dead soft which is a favorite with students as they CAN'T mar an anvil with it yet will hammer glowing steel quite well.

[Frosty]

Then it's not the anvil needs improvement it's your skills. What you're doing doesn't require much power just good hammer technique. Why spend a bunch of money on a tool that isn't going ti improve your skills like having to replace one for being sloppy? Having to pay for mistakes as you go is a marvelous way to sharpen your focus.

No, I'm not joking, skill does the work, not the tools.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Harry L]

Thanks Frosty and ThomasPowers for the suggestion. I agree with your points completely. But for now, based on my need, I am looking for a good quality anvil that is harder than my hammers, which I cannot make them soft. 

[ThomasPowers]

I assume you mean won't and not can't as a simple charcoal grill would do it with no problem, (my kitchen oven goes to 500 degF too)

No problem some folks are hesitant to modify their environment; others feel it's part of being Human.  Blacksmiths tend to be on the latter end of the spectrum.

[Harry L]

Yes. I have to keep my hammers hard

[Frosty]

Think about this a minute. You insist on spending good money on a "hard" anvil but also insist on keeping your hammers hard. Evidently you believe being hard will keep them from denting from a missed blow. Something WILL give, either the hammer or anvil will be marked on impact unless you're just giving it itty bitty pitty pats.

Either develop your skills on something inexpensive or decide which tools are going to be sacrificial.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mark Ling]

I personally would prefer to replace my hammer rather than my anvil. its kind of why you don't heat treat your hot cut hardy. first of its going to loose its temper if you're cutting any big stock. second, it doesn't need to be heat treated if your going to be cutting hot steel, and third if you mis a blow and accidently hit the hot cut, it damages the hot cut rather than the hammer, which is more preferred by me. in this situation I would have my hammer replaced rather than my anvil. if you don't want to soften your hammers, than go to a yard sale, find a hammer, and soften it. they literally cost a couple dollars at most.

                                                                                                                 Littleblacksmith

[the iron dwarf]

generally hammers are softer these days because makers dont want liability if they chip and someone is injured, the harder the hammer / anvil is the more likely it is to chip rather than deform but maybe you know more than swordsmiths over the centuries who have worked without modern steels,

also work hardened metal will be brittle compared to that worked hot or at least annealed when needed,

even mild can fracture but I suppose you must be an expert as you are not asking the best way to do things but telling us how it has got to be.

I know nothing about Tsuba's but some people here will know and they are trying to help you

sounds to me like you need a lot of hammer practice with an average hammer and a simple block of steel so you dont mess up a good anvil and hammer as well as your work with missed blows.

it is not the tools that do the work, it is the person using them, there are many on here who could do better work than you could with a large rock and a smaller one even if you had a mirror polished and diamond hard anvil and hammer.

Thomas Powers is probably one of the best people here to tell you what you need ( rather than what you think you want )

[Harry L]

Gents, I initially tried to avoid answering this question, because the only purpose of this post is to ask whether someone here can help making an anvil for me. But it seems some replies start to become judgmental. Many of you nicely give suggestions without really knowing what I really want to do and who I am. Now I feel I am obliged to clarify this.

1. My work is not equal to sword making. It is actually quite different from sword making;

2. Because the material I am planning to work with is harder than hot steel, and because some hammers' faces are pre-patterned, I need a hardened hammer;  

3. Because I do not want a missing blow to dent my anvil, I need the anvil harder than my hammer;

4. As to the "perfect your skill" thing, thank you for your suggestion. But regardless of how perfect my skill is, I cannot guarantee that I will never miss a single blow in my life.

5. I actually can live with a softer anvil - which I currently have. However, the sole purpose of this post is to upgrade my equipment, not seeking advice to perfect my skill .