Having trouble with annealing

[Dustin Quade]

Ok so last year i got my hands on some damascus, there was some people here that warned me that it might be of inferior quality because of the price i got it for. Warned me to looks for delamination and the like. So i held off on using the stuff but last weekend i finally decided to give it a go, both so i could test the steel and so i could test out my new grinder.

I forged it out and no delamination at all which of course makes me happy. I was told that the steel was 1080 and 15n20. So once i forged out the blade and tang to the shape i wanted i decided to anneal the blade. I heated up some kind of metal they use on train tracks, it big and heavy and looks like a question mark. I put that in my bucket of vermiculite then i heated up the blade but tang more than blade to an orange heat and stuck it in my vermiculite with the other piece of steel. I also forged another blade out of some 01 and annealed that as well to make the grinding easier. I left it outside for about 5 hours and when i took it out of the vermiculite it was still warm enough to sting abit when held so i figured that it had annealed.

I took the blade to the grinder and got it profiled and flat ground then went to go and drill in the holes. I have used the drill press and bits before to drill holes for knives and it worked out. I have never been able to get it to work on this damascus stuff though so i usually end up just punching the holes in hot. But i feel like im just not annealing the steel right and that must be my issue. So does anyone have any tips for getting damascus steel of that make up soft enough to drill through with titanium coated bits.

[Kozzy]

I'm not answering your specific question but wanted to point out one issue which came up on a commercial project I had to do a while back.  The job was cooling saw blade blanks--These were similar in shape to a knife although a little bit thinner than one would usually see in a knife blank.

I had to monitor temperature to time a cooling system from red-hot to ability to handle with bare hands.  What surprised me was how fast they lost the first thousand or so degrees (f) as they came out of the heat.  It only took 15 to 20 seconds for the first drop in temperature..and then another 5 minutes under fans to drop to the handling temperature.

The point is, that seemingly small amount of time from heat to vermiculate can have a very large effect on temperature of the part--possibly so much that you'll still  generate hardness in the metal like an "air quench".  Obviously there are a ton of factors but I wanted to point out that the initial temperature drop was quite fast so you have to MOVE.

Oh...and cobalt bits are generally worth the extra expense if there is a chance your metals will be a little harder than dead-soft.  On something like rivet holes you'll be using the same diameter 99% of the time so it might be worth getting a couple in that size,  I always have a few solid carbide bits in that size (for desperate times, stubby length) also but they're pretty easy to snap.

[Scott gallagher]

Dustin did you normalize after you forged? If not you can still. Reheat the blade to critical tempeture,still air cool,

to black , reheat to a lower tempeture but still a red not orange, reheat to a cherry red then vermiculite,

you should then be able to machine. 

Scott

Each cycle requires to cool to black before reheating this is called thermocycling

scot

[Steve Sells]

3 minutes ago, Scott gallagher said:

Dustin did you normalize after you forged? If not you can still. Reheat the blade to critical tempeture,still air cool,

to black , reheat to a lower tempeture but still a red not orange, reheat to a cherry red then vermiculite,

you should then be able to machine. 

Scott

Each cycle requires to cool to black before reheating this is called thermocycling

scot

since he just detailed how he annealed it, what do you expect a normalising cycle to do that would improve maintainability?  a sub-critical temper may be needed. Its in the ht sticky which I am sure he has read.

[Dustin Quade]

11 hours ago, Steve Sells said:

since he just detailed how he annealed it, what do you expect a normalising cycle to do that would improve maintainability?  a sub-critical temper may be needed. Its in the ht sticky which I am sure he has read.

Actually when i bought the steel i wasnt given any of the paperwork on it so i have no idea how to ensure proper heat treatment of it. The only advantage i have is that there was a video series by kyle royer on youtube of his journeyman knife test and the blade he made was of a similar material to what i was told this stuff is. So im trying to follow along with how he made his knife but the holes are just being problematic. What is a sub critical temper?