Freon tank forge preparation

[brianc]

I’m not great at multiple word queries on this site, so at the risk of being referred to existing posts I’m looking for some specific forge build advice. I have obtained several empty Freon tanks for forge bodies and am not sure what I need to do as far as cleaning them. The valves are open, but before I fire up the plasma cutter, are there other cleaning precautions I need to take? I have seen references to Freon converting to phosgene gas when it burns, so the plasma cutter may not be the best choice.

 

We are building Frosty’s T-burners, his construction  document seems pretty straight forward, especially since I have a lathe. Insulation will be one inch wrap of Kaowool, with another inch of Kastolite inside of that, coated with some HYB-UV I got from Rex Price. I like the split shell Wayne Coe shows on his website, will probably incorporate that into one of them.

Thanks in advance for the help

 

Brian

[Mikey98118]

I've heard that working on Freon tanks can make you sick?

"When grinding wheels touch steel these days, your work is quickly past

Unlike the tools of yesterday, their wheels turn very fast

And when they cut, inside your tank the steel is turning red

Which means it's more than hot enough to make a nasty gas

Breath not one whiff, or you may find yourself quite sick, in bed"

 

Traces of fluorocarbons can remain in old cylinders. Wash them out with soap and water before doing any kind of hot work on them, including abrasive cutting. Unscrew the main valve assembly, and feed a water/detergent mix through a funnel; let set a few days and pour out the mess. Make your layout and cut away the same end opening, with more water in the cylinder, to insulate any trace of gas impregnated oil left, from hot sparks. Now, you can visually inspect the other end, instead of just crossing your fingers and hoping to be lucky.

My book doesn't cover building forges from Freon tanks; only from the much larger five gallon propane cylinders. I would suggest that you follow the advice of Ron Riel given on his posted Burner Pages, With one change: extend the kiln shelf beyond the forge shell's ends, instead of playing around with his complex internal support structure. In order to make this scheme work the notches that hold the the kiln shelf must be cut 1/8" larger than the kiln shelf all the way around it

[stan]

Hi brianc  I  am a refrigeration mechanic and have come in contact with phosgene more times than I wanted, its no good but I don`t think in your case that its a major safety issue. If these cylinders are empty and contain no oil( eg if they have been used to store used refrigerant ) and you do you grinding or plasma cutting in a well ventilated area it would be fine. ,If you wanted you could drill a hole in the end and blow them threw with compressed air, I wouldn`t bother,

.

[WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith]

Check out the attachments on the Forge Supplies page at www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com.  There I go through building a gas forge using either a Freon Bottle or a Propane tank.

Let me know if I can help you.

[Mikey98118]

Stan,

This is the age old divide between safety first and "aw shucks; I do this every day." Believe it or not, I can appreciate your viewpoint. However, nobody warned me, and I learned this lesson the hard way. I wrote that lyric after getting back up out of my sick bed...

[stan]

Mike sorry to hear you got sick from phosgene you must have copped a fair dose.In the old days it was common practice  to shake up a near empty  cylinder letting the Freon out to cool the bottle down making it easier to refill, that would be illegal now, and some guys were even smoking(instant phosgene). But I do agree no hot work if Freon gas is present.

[Frosty]

Drill a hole and use a jig saw to cut the tanks no appreciable heat to make BAD gasses.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

Stan,

My reply was put that way, to point out the problem with "he man" thinking, which I practiced for more than forty years. We don't let little things bother us, but shrug them off 'cause we're hard men. A little here and a little there...until one day we are old and find out that all that little here and there didn't get shrugged off after all; the damage was collecting steadily all that time, and the bill has come do...yikes!

[stan]

What Frosty said makes good scene and would also eliminate any problems of old cylinders being galvanized or plated.

Mike what you say is right and can be applied to a lot of work practices that we use to do and some we still do .

[Frosty]

Cumulative damage is applied to everything we do whether we realize or deny it or not. It's not just a good idea it's THE LAW!

I just don't know where to draw the line. Some things fall into the "use it or lose it" category while others eat us slowly. For example "never jump out of or off the truck!" Okay but impact strengthens our bones and joints avoiding it results in osteoporosis and wimpy bersus and connective tissues. Overdo it on the other hand and you get particularly painful forms of arthritis, really overdo it and you break things. It's a huge simplification but it holds.

Some things are don't do it once things MSDS are good to help us recognize those and take precautions.

I don't know where to draw the line between strengthening and doing damage. It's there though for every darned thing we do. Be careful out there.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Well, I can't sleek for human bones, but in horses one can take a yard orniment (the horse equivalent to a couch potato) and bring him to a high level of endurance (50 mile a day at the traut) in 90 days,but it takes 8 months for his bone density to increase to take the stress of doing it on the pavement. 

[Mikey98118]

Excellent; both views were aired, and the readers can make an informed decision. Nobody gets out of this deal alive, anyway

Now, we needs to get back to chasing after the subject at hand...