vaporlock Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Hi All, In the series "you can not have enough of a good thing" i bought another anvil today but this one more for its unusual shape than anything else. looks like a nice big table with enough holes in it to twist and turn. As soon as i have it home I'll look if there are any markings on it. the anvil is 68.5x13x26.5 cm and from the size i would guess 120 ish kg (but that figure is probably totally of the mark). I have no idea if there is a reason for this anvil type and I can not find any info on it or anything similar. Any ideas? vaporlock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 It is a French pig style. Bout all I can say. Good looking anvil. Have fun with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaporlock Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 really, "pig style" ? ha, it does look like one, never thought it would be a style. I give her a whirl and let you know how much fun she is:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutant Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Very cool looking with 3 hardy holes. Maybe it was for production? A different hardy tool in each hole to speed up the work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaporlock Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 I do have the feeling it was some specific purpose anvil. I do not seem to find one like it on the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Could it be that the extra hardie holes were for hold downs of some kind? so material in one hardie hole can be supported by the others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaporlock Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 like being able to place a scrolling mould on the anvil. with two or three post support instead of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Very interesting piece. Multiple hardy holes for multiple tooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 it's clear that's a special purpose anvil, but for what trade, i don,t know. check the area's specific trades/manufactures. in the cutlery areas, you can find cutler's anvils, etc. I don't know to consider you happy or unhappy to live in a such anvil rich country like France, where you can find the most diverse and great anvils at very decent prices. 3 years ago I discovered the anvils on leboncoin.fr and I got mad, now I'm better, but at the beginning I was sick for months... but somehow I have 3 french anvils, among which there's a "pig" double horned anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaporlock Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 Hi Matei, Yes, I think I saw your thread on the "pig style" anvil you found and the subsequent discussion on which country it was made in. as you once said, The area of France richest in anvils is the northern half of france and especially in the west. The south where i live is a bit poorer in anvil culture. If ever you need a hand getting one shipped, let me know, we will see what is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Sayers Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Wow, that is cool! The curved side-exit hardie is a dead giveaway that it's either of French make or produced for a French importer, but 3 hardies, that is a new one to me. The signature vertical seam between the legs is common to that pattern, and suggests that it was made by the same foundry as many of the single hole anvils of the same pattern, so it probably isn't a style preference of that anvil maker, but rather a specially produced anvil for a specific trade, as Matei noted. There are some features that hint at the possible use. One is the size of the face. It looks longer than most pig anvils and the placement of the hardies coupled with the length suggests that a long uninterrupted working face was important to whatever they were making on it, so probably a long item that needs to be very flat and straight, like a blade of some sort. But whatever it was also required a variety of die geometries that were in use simultaneously, like on a cutler's anvil, so it was probably not for making saws or files. The typical English solution is to have a number of slots cut into the face, but if you want to preserve as much flat work area as possible, multiple hardies are a better way to go. There was a high demand for sabres in France during the time this anvil would have been made, so it might be a specialty cutlers anvil made for producing longer blades. There was also a worldwide demand for large "Sabatier" chefs knifes produced in the Thiers region of France, and like the Sheffield tradition, they used a "fully forged" approach that requires a specialty anvil with many geometries. If you are ever in the Thiers area, you should stop by the Musée de la Coutellerie and bring a picture, they might be able to identify it. Whatever it is, it's a hell of a collector's piece, nice find! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaporlock Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 Hi Ian, Interesting thoughts, I actually bought the anvil a few km away from Thiers. Apparently it had been in the family for three generations . I asked the seller if he could provide a bit more info on the history of the anvil and he will check with his dad whose father used to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Sayers Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Check out the youtube video Blade_Forger by taliesinpewter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Hey Vaporlock that's one unusual anvil you have there. - Out of interest are all the hardy holes the same size? There can't be very many of those anvils left in the world that's for sure. I have no idea what it's use might have been sadly. Though for some reason I do suspect it was for making cutlery of some sort. Are there any makers marks? All the best Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaporlock Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 Hi Andy, The anvil is on it's way and I will look for makers marks as soon as. I keep looking for references to this type of anvil but I can not even find one that vaguely looks like this one. The region it comes from hints heavily at blade forging but even there i do not see another one like it. I am hoping the previous owner will be able to tell me a bit more about its "maybe" specialised use. Hi Ian, I missed your post. waw, such efficiency, the point where he says this is the most important part of the blade and bangs away with this big doghead .... amazing . I have to look at it a few times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Could be itailian, it has the pig shape of the nimba centurian. I beleive that the designer of niba anvils studied under a well nown Itainian smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Sayers Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Explains a lot right? He's Sheffield school so I'm sure techniques differ a lot, plus he's using a different type of cutler's anvil, but it explains perfectly why a cutler would need several hardie holes. Unlike most modern smiths, you'll notice he leaves his hardie chisel in at all times, because he uses it for much more than cut-offs. For instance, you can see him use his hardie chisel to forge out the tang in record time by cutting and splaying it rather than drawing it out on the face. A lot of instructors would have a fit if you left your chisel in all the time, but if you want to make knifes at that kind of pace, you can't be switching out hardie tools all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Matto, that's for sure French. the French have more types of anvils and have many anvil manufacturers (I think more than the italians), so I don't see why to import them (even that I saw some american or english ones for sale in France and german ones in the N-E of the country) I also saw some slot/dovetaliled anvils for sale in France, some in Thiers area, so they made and use them, too. Vaporlock - that anvil wasn't mine, I just commented on it. I still have to take some pictures of my anvils and show off here, but I'm a bit lazy as French anvils, I have a Hulot-Harmel of 101kg , then a no-name older "pig" of about 150kg, then an army small "field" anvil of ~30kg, the one with a hollow conical sheet metal toolbox as base, to be carried on mules/horses, and a cube, maybe tin-smith, ~60kg anvil which is still to be shipped from Toulouse, where a friend bought it to me. and thank you for the help offer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Mouse Hole in England, and Firminey in France both produced slotted and double hardy anvils for every conceivable market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 That anvil is not known as a "pig anvil" anywhere but on iforgeiron. It is simply a French anvil, descended from the so-called church-window continental European anvils. It is a style of anvil you will find often around Thiers, as it is a couteliers anvil, probably also used by taillandiers also, but mainly by couteliers. The many hardy holes take the place of the "gates" seen in Sheffield anvils, though you see these French anvils with gates as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Sayers Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 2 hours ago, Dan P. said: That anvil is not known as a "pig anvil" anywhere but on iforgeiron. Not true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I don't know if it's universally and officially known as "pig anvil", that's the first thing that come in mind when you see one, so, maybe more people have called it like this independently. I've already seen them called "cochon" in french, Is just an unofficial nickname and the most of the people seem to know what we're talking about. I saw it used in other places than IFI. for my part, that's why I always put that nickname between commas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 11 hours ago, Ian Sayers said: Sure it can be said to look like a pig, but "pig anvil" is not a style, like "London Pattern" or "Styrian Pattern". "Pig anvil" is an internet term; This type of anvil was never marketed as a "pig anvil" by its manufacturers, and in its country of origin the majority of anvils look this way, and they are just called "anvils". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I agree with Ian. Whilst you are correct Dan, it might not have been marketed as a pig anvil they have certainly been nicknamed as such. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I'm not sure why a style of anvil needs a nickname? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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