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Forge lining Question


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Hey, new to the forum and this seemed like a good place for my post. I want to make a gas fueled forge most likely using some kind of coffee can or small garbage receptacle and fueled by propane like in most DIY videos. It's a low budget project and im just trying to use what i have. I just wanted to get some input on the liner compound i intend to use on the inside of my forge before i get into putting this together.

I have a bag of CGC SHEETROCK BRAND 45 SETTING-TYPE JOINT COMPOUND and was wondering if this would suffice as the liner or would i have to mix it with sand maybe? or just go out and buy something proper?
(any way here's the MSDS) 
https://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_Marketing_Communications/canada/product_promotional_materials/finished_assets/sheetrock-brand-45-setting-type-joint-compound-msds-en-can.pdf

Thanks in Advance, KnifeySpoony :D

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That stuff is great.... I use it all the time and keep a bucket of it on the truck ....  For tapeing drywall.

 

 

It's the wrong stuff for a forge. Simplest stuff is to get some high temp insulating blanket and coat it with the right coatings. You can build it from high temp insulating fire bricks as well if you don't want to do a can type forge. Wayne Coe here has a everything you need on his website along with good directions on how to use it. Go to the Forge Supplies page at www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com and study the stuff there.

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Knifey 

My be I can expand on your subject and add to the good info I have seen others say to you.

You want something like kola wool as a heat insulator and so you do not burn it up or suck into your lungs the nasty wool one adds coats of refractory cement that can handle imho at least 3,000 degrees . I used a mesh wire on top the wool and added (years ago) AP greens refractory cement . I am not sure what is best these days but I'm sure many can fill that part in.  Also if your going to use flux buy or make a kiln plate/shelf so the flux does not eat your lining. A few dollars saves you a lot of trouble.

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High mas refractories are not effecent for hobbiests, if you were running three shifts in your shop, or had a fire guard and left things light it would be ok, but for us "hobbiests" ot "jobbers" light weight insulating refractories are the ticket, be it insulating ceramic blanket, light weight insulating fire brick or light weight castible refractory. 

All benifit from an IR reflecting kiln wash. Most cities with any kind of industry will have refractory dealers, but small amounts will be pricey or dificult to sorce. This is where Wayne and others step in and are able to sabe you time, headach and often money by providing small lots (they buy in bulk and break it down, usualy) as well as advice as to what should fit your needs and expectations. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Also, high mass refractories are more given to cracking than some semi-insulted types. I think the heavier castable refractories (ex. 140 Lbs to the cubic foot) were developed to be the most resistance to attack from molten glass, etc., rather than for general toughness.

That would be insulated, not "insulted" :-)

That would be resistant, not "resistance" That's it; time for a cup of coffee!

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Wayne's site will get you there however you decide to go. Just don't try to make the Perfect forever forge first thing, it ain't gonna happen and that's how so many of us have so many old forges in odd corners of our shops.

Say Mike you DO have an insulated coffee mug don't you?

Frosty The Lucky.

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Thanks Frosty, yes we all have gone through many reincarnations to get to where we are now.  The forges that I (and you) advocate may not be perfect and the answer to all but we do have some trial and error to get to where we are now.  Now, you all watch what other more experienced smiths have stated and then try to use that information.  You may come up with something new and we may all learn something new.  If it did not work that way Frosty and I and many others would not have differing opinions or solutions.

Let me know if I can help you.

waynecoe@highland.net

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm a little torn, between advising newbies to start with a brick pile forge, which certainly has endless virtues, and advising them to start with a miniature forge coffee-can or two gallon refrigerant cylinder sized, which is super portable and easily stowed beneath a workbench, and will always find use even after they decide on what their personal version of the "perfect forge" is. I built both and still can't decide, which is better; maybe it just comes down to what a guy thinks is the most nifty?

I think for some of us its like collecting cars; more a case of greed than common sense:D

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Well, as we have the "gasser" steins on the hook, lets ask about general durability and particularly vibration and impact resistance (gas forge in the back of a farrier's rig). My pro forge needs relined again, and Cliff's suggestion to improve durability is not to carry it in your rig. We won't print my reaction to that "answer" 

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You're more than welcome Wayne, you're a real contributor to the craft, I just calls em like I sees em.

What I try to do when asked what kind of forge to build is find out what they want to do, what their skill levels and resources are. Then I try to give them a list of what I think's in their range, the hows and whys of the differences.

A brick pile forge is beyond a lot of people's resources, money and room. A lot of guys don't need or want to do anything that needs more than a bean can or two brick forge.

My shop forge is basically a brick pile forge with a permanent lid and deck, it just doesn't look like one. I was a professional fabricator though and it's not only WAY more forge than I need it's intimidating. I don't take it to demos anymore for two reasons, first it's too intimidating, nobody is interested i taking a lash at forging if they think they need something like that or heck even a farrier's forge. Taking it for a ride in the pickup tends to make me have to replace bricks every time too.

The brick pile and T burner forge on the other hand is intuitively logical and folk can accept $50.00+ in fire brick and anther $10.00 for the burner and $35+ for the reg, hose and valve.  $100-150 is within reason to give the craft a try.

Another gas forge I really like is a SS stove pipe shell. The stuff is a little expensive but not unreasonable, you don't need special tools to work it: ruler, red pencil, tin snips, drill, bits and a pop rivet gun is your tool kit. Everything else is off the shelf. One last handy little bit about stainless steel you'll like Mike, you're as selfish about heat you've spent good money to generate as I am. ;) Stainless steel has a high IR albedo. It reflects heat.

There are so many different shapes and dimensions that work well for a gas forge I try to keep to the basics. I have a couple general ones I tend to recommend but I also tell new guys a forge only contains the fire and heat. Once they understand enough of that little fact and some construction details they're pretty well equipped to invent things I never thought of.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I carry my forge to about 5 conferences per year, all trips are over 300 miles.  The forge rides in the back of a 24' horse trailer.  It rides with all the other stuff that I carry for sale.  The forge holds up well with no repairs.

It is also versatile, as a brick pile forge is, and much more efficient.  If you need to change the size of the forge you can just knock out one or both of the hinge pins and block it up with fire brick.  You can check out the Build a Gas Forge and Ribbon Burner attachments on the Forge Supplies page at www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com.  I run a Ribbon Burner and set the regulator to about 1/2# pressure.  I say about because it is so low that I really can't tell. 

Let me know if I can help you.

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Frosty writes:

"Another gas forge I really like is a SS stove pipe shell. The stuff is a little expensive but not unreasonable, you don't need special tools to work it: ruler, red pencil, tin snips, drill, bits and a pop rivet gun is your tool kit. Everything else is off the shelf. One last handy little bit about stainless steel you'll like Mike, you're as selfish about heat you've spent good money to generate as I am. ;) Stainless steel has a high IR albedo. It reflects heat."

I thought about using one of those, along with a 1" inner layer of ceramic fiber blanket (at the rate my burners eat up stainless steel flame nozzles, I wouldn't want to risk exposing a thin inner liner of stainless to flame impingement from one of them). And since we've both mentioned them, we should warn people to wear at least a double string dust mask when working on the pipe, and thoroughly vacuum the work area afterward, since it's lined with asbestos. But, I think most people would not want to spend the money for such a fancy shell with so many tin cans in the world; wouldn't stop me though. Yes, that would make a nice Formula One piece of heating equipment...

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No, not the metalbestos pipe, just plain SS stove pipe and line it with washed ceramic blanket, and give it a split brick or kiln shelf floor.

You can use bushing reducers on the ends for the openings to encapsulate the ceramic blanket and provide a surface to attach hinges, slide rails, etc. The stand is as simple as riveting or screwing two wall brackets to the bottom.

It's far from perfect as a forge shell but has it's charm. And yes there are a lot of specialty shapes available and it's not too difficult to smoosh and or stretch round into a vaulted (mailbox shape) forge.

I just like the stuff.

Wayne: my new forge will be a good travel forge. My shop forge was never meant to be anything but a shop forge and is a LOT more fragile than I'd build now even for a shop forge.

I like the brick pile for demos because spectators tend to be encouraged to give smithing a try seeing as you don't need special equipment to get started. I take a piece of RR rail and an old axle to show them what's needed for a perfectly functional anvil.

Frosty The Lucky.

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