jmccustomknives Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Let me start by saying I've been working with cable for many years. My supplier only carries extra IPS cable. A couple of weeks ago a gentleman brought me some new left overs (7/8"). I made a test skinner and it did real well so I forged up a 2pc Bowie. I did an edge quench with a 400F temper as this seems to do best on the cable. As I was cleaning it up I notices something, a temper line. I've tried to get these before with cable and never have, even doing a clay back. The problem, the extra IPS would invert but would never show a line. This stuff did. When I etched it the thing really popped like none I've had. Usually the watering isn't bold. The first pic is the knife with the new cable, the last pic is one from the extra IPS as it is typical patterning I get.The guy was told by his customer that this cable was the strongest they could get. I've not gotten any extra extra IPS, think this could be some? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch4ging Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 JMC, very nice. pattern came out great! What handle material did you use? goes nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 JMC, very nice. pattern came out great! What handle material did you use? goes nicely.Thanks, its a stabilized lace redwood. Both the guard and pommel are blued cable Damascus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Since nobody knew, or cared how or why I was getting a temper line I think I figured it out. It was procedural. I have a pan of "Goddard's goo" that I had recently added a little Parks 50 to the mix. This makes it flame up awful, so when the edge is cool I'd immediately submerge. I believe the back was still at temperature when the submersion happened giving a line. Now that I know I can play with it further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 How does tempering effect or create that ?I know I am a term nazi , but if we misuse, or make up our own terms, it makes information confusing to share, harder to answer questions, like in another thread currently confusing most everyone because of misused terms by many.I cold explain how hardenability of the steel will effect the creation of hamon, but if we dont use the same terms the same way its a waste of time, , as it would have no meaning unless we understood the same works to mean the same thing. For example should I make the statement of::magnesium and quenching will have an effect in some steels to get a better temper (incorrect terminology and lack of detail common to many posters)--- or ---manganese will assist hardenability causing the transition of martensite to pearlite to not be a clear and clear line of demarcation, which is needed for forming the hamon. Any addition thermal cycling, while in many cases improves grain size; can come to a point where too much will render the steel non hardenable. Both of these sentences actually intend to mean the same thing, but the first clause I choose to use commonly misused terms, which you have to admit makes it read differently than the second line. temper for harden, Mn for Mg as well as no real informati0on in the first sentence either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 So, if we are going to be term nazi's What would we call a line between hardened and unhardened steels? I can't call it a hammon can I? It has no design nor forethought in patterning. I had not intended to get that as it has never happened before. And if I recall, Wayne Goddard uses the term "temper line". I could be wrong, I'll dig through that book again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 actually that line is the Hamon. the shapes and styles it takes have additional terms. FYI an Habika is the hardened portion,and Ji is the non-hardened side of the blade, including the Mune aka Spine. Many of us used to use incorrect terms, including Wayne Goddard as well as my old teacher. They both even used to think there was such a thing as a hard/soft layering in pattern welded blades, and I used to also, which is false, my point is to stop misusing terminology so we can share information with less confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I'm not a bladesmith but I'm all in favor of using a consistent trade jargon so we can understand what we're talking about with minimum misunderstanding. Sometimes use is subjective and requires more information eg. The maker lost his temper. In his blade or did he throw things and kick his anvil? OR, Quick, throw the drowning person a lifesaver! Uh, red, yellow, green, white, sugar free?Yeah, speaking the same jargon is important if we don't want to waste a lot of time undoing mistakes or figuring out what the other guy was talking about.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 FYI I do like your work , I am not trying to sound like it is a "stomp on JMC day" Honestly.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Reminds me of an old Monty Python routine set in a WW1 aerodome where one of the pilots is trying to describe his dogfight and everyone is looking blank and finally tell him that they can't understand his jargon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Reminds me of an old Monty Python routine set in a WW1 aerodome where one of the pilots is trying to describe his dogfight and everyone is looking blank and finally tell him that they can't understand his jargon. Fokkers to zee right of me! Fokkers to zee left of me! Or am I thinking of an old joke in a French accent?Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Not that joke, (Dey were flying Messerschmidts!) But if you think of it the jargon of dogfighting was specialized Immelman for instance. If used correctly you could convey to another pilot *exactly* what happened. Used incorrectly and you end up with blank looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) I believe Immelman was the first person to do it on purpose and survive. Perfect example of a trade jargon. A Pilot could explain what s/he was talking about to me with appropriate hand motions and time and get the idea across just fine. However if he'd just survived a dogfight and I was scrambling for my cockpit he might have vital information to convey and seconds to do it.Messerschmidt Pilots. We gotta hook up at a conference someday, what a blast. Frosty The Lucky. Edited July 3, 2015 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Lol, I might have just shortened the term from Differential Temper line. I can't speak Japanese, I'll stick to redneck, oops, Appalachian American slaughtered English. My main concern wasn't the work per say, it was more to the different result that had me puzzled. In the past the edge quench/hammon attempt has never done that. It had me puzzled thinking I had gotten some voodoo cable. I was trying to see if anyone had ever run into it before. My latest blade from that cable was an attempt at a hammon, the result was as I would have predicted before the two edge quench attempts. The pattern inverts, there is no distinct line, although it is very visible. Anyway, here it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 now I am surprised you get that pattern, very nice. the reason I brought up the subject of terms is in another thread we have a talk going that hard to follow as the OP has no clue what the terms mean, so half of us are trying to find out what he wants, the other half are are guessing so they can help, because since he isnt very forth coming with detail.what is your cross guard ? partially welded cable, or do you take 100 hours to carve that edge detail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 Oh, the guard is small cable. I think it adds to the piece and gives uniqueness. I don't guess there's many who would make a knife, guard and pommel completely from cable. I'm crazy that way. Back to the original "differential temper line" (does that work?). I think I can duplicate it with the hammon. I think the line is actually in transition from martisite to austintite. When I did the edge quench my goop catches fire, it get hot quick so I pulled the blade out and full quenched to keep from burning my eyebrows off. The back of the blade was still at hardening temp so it then hardened too leaving a thin zone of unhardened steel. I believe I might be able to recreate this with a full on hammon (it would be somewhat simulated if this is what is happening) by giving the blade a full quench then knocking the refractory off in the quench. If the whole knife is at tempurature when it's quenched it should give the same effect. I like the line better than the inverted patterning, it is more bold in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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