baddayinparadise Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 (edited) I'm in the process of restoring an old leg vice, and I've discovered some deep cracks and rifts in the metal underneath a thick layer of rust. The entire vice seems to have been hand forged at least 50 years ago, and some of the cracks are in between layers of steel that weren't completely welded together during the manufacturing process. Others seem to have formed from heavy use throughout the life of the vice. I was wondering if any of the cracks would require welding before I reassemble the vise post-restoration. Attached are some pictures of cracks I've found. I'll post more as I uncover them and remove their rust. Edited April 27, 2015 by baddayinparadise forgot text -_- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Welcome aboard, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance.Some of those look like bad welds and to "repair" might need some serious forge welding. Do you have experience forge welding? Heavy duty forge welding?You should get hooked up with the blacksmithing organization in your area. If you scroll to the bottom of the opening IFI page you'll come to the regional organization page. It'll give you contact information, seb page, etc. for the ones closest to you. There are a number of advantages: Every hour you spend with an experienced smith is worth days of trying to teach yourself. It'll put you in contact with tools equipment materials and people. Lastly there will be guys who both know how to do forge welds on that scale AND be able to evaluate the vise.It's common for folk new to the craft to want to "repair" old tools and thoroughly screw them up. There might be no real damage to that vise even though it looks like it in the pictures. From what I see though, some of those welds never took where they're visible but below the surface they may be just fine. Trying to refine them might do more harm than good.I'm not saying that IS the case but it MIGHT be. Having some experts take a look can't hurt and might help.Frosty The Lucky. (to get a post in!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 As Frosty said, most of those are visual discontinuities and not real flaws. The unsealed lips on the welds at the jaws, and the striations in the wrought iron around the eye are not structural flaws, however jarring they are to modern sensibilities. The crack starting on the inside corner of the bend is the only one that worries me long term.I was born under a flag with 48 stars, and no one has made new wrought iron in that span of time, so I think your vise is closer to 100 years old. Could be 200, but a few photos of the whole vise from several angles would tell us more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Probably not steel but real wrought iron. Strongly suggest you don't muck with it till you have more experience and/or have to. As mentioned some of those "cracks" are just the sloppy ends of forge welded pieces. Real wrought iron can be welded with both Oxy-Acetylene and arc methods but it is a bit tricky.Some of this sounds like wanting to go over the Mona Lisa with a spray gun to remove the brush strokes visible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baddayinparadise Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share Posted April 27, 2015 (edited) Thank you so much for your replies! I don't have any experience forge welding yet, as I'm a newbie in blacksmithing as well as this forum. This is my first vise, and I wasn't planning on starting with one so old or large, but I saw this beauty at the flea market and I couldn't pass it up. I uncovered a stamped logo that reads "WM CASE DARLASTON". As far as I can tell, Darlaston was a town in England that used to produce a lot of iron work, but is currently listed as a ghost town. I got some pictures of the screw box, which appears to have the greatest need for repair. I'll also attach some extra pictures of the vise that I've taken through the rust removal process. Screwbox from the side Vise after the first run through electrolysis, everything but the post was submerged in the solution. It's partially disassembled here. The best picture I could get of the logo on the movable arm. Close-up picture of the severity of the rust before any removal. Picture of the fixed arm after removing the rust from the jaw. Axial view of the screw box showing the extent of damage to the washer part that normally connects to the key part. Edited April 27, 2015 by baddayinparadise Added captions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Doesn't look like damage to the screw box but to the thrust washer to me. Make a replacement or use as is till catastrophic failure. Or try welding it up with modern methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Do NOT use electrolysis on assembled pieces, especially if they move against each other, it tends to weld them together. Rust is nothing but cosmetic unless it's interfering with movement. Using processes you don't understand to "cure" non-issues can lead to permanent damage.Wire brush it, oil it, mount and use it. "Repairing" or "restoring" a tool is one of the most common means of ruining them I know of. Well, next to sending them to China to turn into bumpers that is. Seriously the ways guys have ruined perfectly good anvils by trying to "restore" them is legion. Most other smithing tools and equipment suffer "restoration" too but anvils seem to suffer the most.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baddayinparadise Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 Thank you guys for the advice! I'm definitely not going to try to alter the vise for any of the cosmetic cracks or gaps in the welding. I like them, it feels like they speak to the age of the vise. I am worried about the diagonal crack in the mounting bracket. It's hard to see in the picture(1st post), but the cracks runs perpendicular to the original forge welded lines. I'm also worried about the screw box, but I'll need to get some more pictures to confirm that it's a separate thrust washer and not a broken weld. I don't want to try any welding myself, is it feasible to make a temporary replacement until I can find someone who is qualified to make those welds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 The thrust washer/screw box crack looks very well worn…if it has lasted for 50 years as is, I dare say it will last for a bit longer. The scarf lip on the jaw and the crack in the corner of the bracket also look to date from original manufacture so as others have said, leave well alone.Just reassemble it, use it, and celebrate its age and character.I would repair it only if it fails to function, but only then.Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Since I tend to buy vises without mounting brackets as they are cheaper and making such a bracket is a simple job I don't understand your issue. Make a new bracket and get on down the road! The vise won't work any better with an old bracket than a new one. These were TOOLS that were used, modified, fixed, abused, rode hard and put away wet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) If it is of any reassurance to you I just idled across and had a look at the two vices I have set up in the forge.They both show similarly "textured" areas under the jaw with the scarf lip unwelded, and one of them has similar bracket cracks to yours. The crack, like yours is part way through the inner laminations of the wrought iron and will probably have been there from new. The only way I can see there being sufficient stress put on it to create the crack in use, is if the wedge and staple came loose. The remaining outer two thirds are still doing fine.I was given one my vices and bought the other for a fiver when I first set up my forge in the late seventies and they have been in use ever since. Although I don't use them both every day there have been times when I have had four or five assistants working on the larger projects so they have seen just under 40 years of professional use with me and probably double that previously.I have always liked to see the fibres in forged wrought ironwork. And now I have seen the crack in my own vice bracket I am much relieved. It is good to see that it is not just me that struggles to keep the temperature up when working wrought iron, even the old industrial smiths working with it all the time were able to get it wrong! I am very happy to keep that there as a reminder to make me feel a bit better for when I screw up in the future. Alan Edited April 28, 2015 by Alan Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Monday Morning Hangovers are nothing new either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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