While I'm sitting along I-83, 12 miles north of the Baltimore beltway with a disabled truck (I drive tractor trailer parttime) figured I'd go on iForge.
Alan, I necked the rod down to about 3/8" and then did the facets.
I used a smithin magician with butcher dies first and then flat dies to clean up neck.
Then took it down the rest of the way.
Do you have any photos of the V tools you described?
I can't picture them.

I have just looked up smithin magician and think you could use a system like that to guide a pair of vee tools. Instead of the butcher tools which have a straight and a beveled side you could make a pair of tools which were beveled both sides.

Doing it without guided tools you are better supporting the bar in the vee block and doing one corner at a time.
I don't actually have the tools I was suggesting but the photo here is the nearest approximation from bits in the workshop and illustrates the general concept. The top tool shown is a power hammer tool which can be used either singly or in pairs as a butcher or to create a vee if rotated through 90degrees.

You would just notch in the corners of the bar which would form the rear facets of your ball and leave a strong stem which on the 16mm (5/8") bar would be around 11-12mm (1/2") on the arras to the original bar. Then resting those rear facets on the edge of the anvil forge the tip facets hammering straight down. True up and refine the ball and then draw out the stem to whatever you needed. You should be able to get the faceted ball formed in one heat because you can hit farly hard without worrying so much about bending/breaking the stem...

Alan

Scruffy sketch if the photo of the tools does not make it clear...

Alan

That was a long day yesterday.

What should have been a 5 hour round trip from Lancaster County to Finksburg, Md turned into a 11.75 hour run.

Had to stop in a bend of the road and couldn't get too far off onto the shoulder due to a steep drop off alongside the road.

In some places along I-83 there is just enough room for a truck to stop on the shoulder and that's it.

Traffic was so bad at 9am that I couldn't get out of the truck for a short time.

I spent a few hours in the woods about 30 yards off the highway away from the truck because of the high probability of my truck getting hit by another truck driver.

Every now and then two trucks would go by at the same time and still can't believe nothing additional happened.

It took phone calls to three towing companies before one would come out.

 

Alan, I understand it now from the photo and is an interesting way to do it.

Peter, looks nice.

 

I'll try welding material back on itself the next time I'm burning coal.

 

thanks for the info,

Allen

Bad day indeed.

My favourite leisure activity is wandering through woods, preferably a lot further away from the roads though. I hope you were suitable attired for the clemency or otherwise of the weather. 6 hours in the open this season would not be good in the wrong clothes.

Alan

John, just saw your post.
Sounds good about the nut.
What about a square chunk of steel with a hole drilled in it to match the end of the rod and then forge weld that?

You could try it.  But the nice thing about a nut is that it is already done.  If you are not using swages having a gap like you would get with wrapping a piece around works really well.  The Cosira books show the process really well.  They are available for download online and are well worth looking up for this sort of work.

if you use a nut or piece of cutoff material, you must hacksaw a side parallel to the home. this allows the but to wrap around whilst welding. the two hacksaw edges will fw and disappear.

if you don't do this, the "hole" will grow bigger, and you are libel to miss your weld.

refer to Frank Turley's post above for wrapping and forgewelding.

good job and great exercise!

looks like you figured out the masses! the math is simple, and will put you right on every time!

keep the handwork going 'til you get more experience, then add whatever tools needed. it pays off in spades in the long run.

if you use a nut or piece of cutoff material, you must hacksaw a side parallel to the home. this allows the but to wrap around whilst welding. the two hacksaw edges will fw and disappear.

if you don't do this, the "hole" will grow bigger, and you are libel to miss your weld.

refer to Frank Turley's post above for wrapping and forgewelding.

good job and great exercise!

looks like you figured out the masses! the math is simple, and will put you right on every time!

keep the handwork going 'til you get more experience, then add whatever tools needed. it pays off in spades in the long run.

 

 

I have done it lots of times without cutting a slot.

This might help you out

Thanks Paul, I've seen that good video before.

 

Finally found an image using flat stock with a ball on the end.

It does look like one piece from flat stock and the ball has not been forge-welded on.

www.cjforge.net/hooks/ball-hook

I'll try some 1/4 x 1" and see how it goes.

Maybe this is one of our members. They create some nice work.

 

 

Kevin and Owen have a couple Nazel 3B's in the shop, and they aren't afraid to use it (at least the one that is working;-).  Those double hooks would be no problem with a 3B and a little tooling...  Changes is cross section are what a power hammer is for;-)

Edited March 4, 201511 yr by SJS

It is pretty easy to upset enough stock for a half inch ball on the end of a 3/8" rod. From there a top and bottle ball swage (also pretty easy). 

• If I were making that hook I would start with round bar  large enough to forge your flat bar out of.   You will have a hard time upsetting the flat bar to a ball.  Flattening a round bar will be much easier than upsetting the flat bar to a ball.  As well a forged out flat bar will look much better than forged ends and an un forged middle section.  On the hook shown I suspect it was forged out of the same diameter bar as the balls.  Those balls look to me to be at least 5/8" diameter.  You could forge that out of smaller bar and upset for the balls and accept a narrower flat bar. 

It is pretty easy to upset enough stock for a half inch ball on the end of a 3/8" rod. From there a top and bottle ball swage (also pretty easy). 

​Yes just the action of the ball tools themselves, pushing the ends in will almost get it to 1/2". Just a couple of taps on the end as you take it from the heat to the tool should easily get you to a 1/2" ball.

 

Given the "flat" section tapers all along its length from the top bend in both directions, I would agree that round stock was probably the starting point. The cross-section of the lower hook looks rounded on top as though it had been supported in a shallow swage, but it may just be shallow chamfers.

The video of Bryan Brazeal forging a ball looks slightly inefficient. Wonderful hammer control, but every blow of that big hammer that establishes the neck on the corner of the anvil is reducing the diameter of the ball, which he then has to try and get back by upsetting.

Using a necking tool of some sort to isolate the effect to just the area you want it would be advantageous. Just a bit of Ø10mm (Ø3/8") bent into a U as a simple spring fuller would save a lot of work…But if you are heading for a facetted ball rather than a smooth one you would be better using either the vee tools I suggested earlier or making a temporary spring swage from a bit of 10mm (3/8") square bent into a U on the arras. or some Vee tools in your metal magician. Creating the necking and establishing the facets (without any reduction in the ball metal) in one go.

Alan